The correct way to add subtrees for the upcoming FRANCE-BENELUX

[人民英雄聂海芬]

Firstly, I am pleased to see that Gaijin is attempting to supplement the French technology tree.

Then, let’s explore the significance of the sub technology tree.

On the one hand, the sub technology tree should be unique, with its own or unique vehicles in the game, rather than simple copy and paste or insignificant modifications of vehicles that have already appeared in the game. （A typical negative textbook is Leopard 2A6）

On the other hand, the sub technology tree should supplement and enhance the deficiencies of the main technology tree.

For the French Army, I believe the shortcomings are the lack of tracked light tanks（France is more inclined to manufacture wheeled tanks）, the lack of medium tanks with stabilizers in levels VI, VII, and VIII, as well as main battle tanks and light tanks.

For French aircraft, there is a lack of some early, World War II era aircraft. As for top tier aircraft, France has many Mirages and there will be Rafale in the future.（STOP add F16 to ALL Nation, if you really want it why don’t add it to USSR? At least this idea is innovative enough.）

Let me use the leakage list as an example to explain how to correctly add subtrees.

Fokker is great, it’s unique

No F16s

No Mirage5BA(if only add AIM9 and Flares), try Mirage 5BA (MirSIP), it seems to be using the F16 device, This may mean that it can carry precision guided weapons and have better flight performance. If not how about add the Mirage III NG?

See suggestion here

NF-5A for squad, like Tailand one.

Leo 1 Cockerill 3105

Good, it’s unique, but as what I said, K21-105(Cockerill 3105) is better, or we can have both of them? France needs both level VII light tanks and level VI stable MBTs, AND we can also add K21-120(Cockerill XC-8) later.

See suggestion here

L2A4 No, give us Leclerc(P) with OFL 120 G1 then its close to L2A4a and M1 to stay at 10.3.

L2A6 No, just fix the Leclercs as the issues you ACKNOWLEDGED, then we will have 11.0’s Leclerc (the S1 conforms to history with OFL 120 G1) and 11.7’s Leclerc(S2 S21 conforms to history).

SEE all issues on Leclerc HERE, and thanks to @WaretaGarasu

[人民英雄聂海芬]

@Hyrikul@ Bossman919@ DirectSupport@ WaretaGarasu@ MS_PhantasmYou may like my idea?

[Mathll]

There are so many French vehicles that could have been added in place of these, and the list that was shared does not present any unique vehicle other than the Fokker and the Cockerill, I find that shameful

[人民英雄聂海芬]

This post mainly discusses subtrees, as gaijin seems unwilling to add self-produced vehicles for France

[Mathll]

I know but this list makes me depressed, it is not a sub tree that is proposed in the list but a vulgar copy and paste, there is not even a search to add anything original

[人民英雄聂海芬]

This is how Gaijin treats France :)
I’m working to make this not so bad.

[BleedingUranium]

Fokker G.1 would be an awesome addition, such a cool plane.

More of things we have in other trees doesn’t bother me at all, it adds more options to the country it’s added to and makes it easier for people to obtain them. More is always better.

[Mathll]

Thank you for trying, I made different suggestions in other topics when the first rumors concerning the Benelux appeared. Unfortunately I don’t think Gaijin is listening to us

[Mathll]

If you have to play France to get Leopards and F-16, what is the use of the tree system in the game? Might as well do global research and remove nations at that level.

@BleedingUranium

More is always better

Let’s copy and paste all the top tier vehicles to pretend to add content

[AlvisWisla]

? Mirage 3E is already added. [NF-5A]
There is no Vextra TML 105 equivalent.
There’s no Leopard 2A4 equivalent.
F-16A equivalents are already added.
2A6 equivalents are already in-game.
Leopard 1 equivalent’s in-game.
There’s really nothing for those specific vehicles…

[BleedingUranium]

@Mathll

Might as well do global research and remove nations at that level.

That would be the ideal, though actually implementing this wouldn’t be viable at this point in the game’s life.

[Mathll]

@AlvisWisla

? Mirage 3E is already added

There are at least 3 french versions of Mirage 3 and 5 that can be added to the game (3NG, 3EX, 50)

@AlvisWisla

There is no Vextra TML 105 equivalent

This a french design

@AlvisWisla

There’s no Leopard 2A4 equivalent

Have you ever heard about the AMX 30, 32 and 40 variants

@AlvisWisla

F-16A equivalents are already added.

Several Mirage 2000 variants and their improvements are still missing

I am not fundamentally against adding a sub-tree to France, but we would have to think for more than 5 seconds and ask ourselves if just adding leopards and the solution, as @ 你的智力决定我的出车数量 said very well, there are plenty of original options and concepts which could have their place with France

Frankly, when we see the list that is proposed, in which nation would this sub-branch make the most sense, Germany or France?

[MS_Phantasm]

I assume you mean what is currently in game.
Otherwise France has domestic equivalents for whatever a subtree could offer.

A sub tree for France should bring diversity and flavor, not be a means to fill gaps that shouldn’t be there in the first place. Which this has become a very tired argument.

[MS_Phantasm]

You’re list is very good, I would support your idea for BeNeLux as a subtree if it’s being added. As this is has a lot of thought and research put into it.

There’s about 6 prototype Leclercs. France is in no shortage of light vehicles that can be added as well.
I can personally say that I have no interest in copy paste Leopard 2s or F-16s, they’ll only serve to add unnecessary bloat.

But we don’t know if Gaijin even cares about our feedback for this issue. The suspected worst case scenario is that BeNeLux serves to just bring copy-paste and say that’s the solution to the problem they created.

[AlvisWisla]

AMX-40 is already in the game.
Mirage 2000 is already in the game.
All the vehicles in the sub-tree don’t replace anything, they augment at most.

@MS_Phantasm
Sub-trees don’t replace equipment in War Thunder, they add.
And the sub-tree is adding.
Sub-trees have never been added to “fill gaps that shouldn’t be there”.

[Mathll]

For me the best thing to do for adding this sub tree would have been not to put the planes, because the majority of them are imported planes and for the tanks, to add the unique designs

• Piranha III
• Bechhold
• ACEC Cobra tank (25 and 90)
• Marmon-Herrington tanks (ww2)

[MS_Phantasm]

South Africa begs to differ.

[Mathll]

@AlvisWisla

AMX-40 is already in the game

When I talk about vehicle VARIANTS, what’s not to know, there have been improvement projects for the AMX-30, 32 and 40 whose models are not in the game

@AlvisWisla

Mirage 2000 is already in the game.

In game we have 4 variants of Mirage 2000 out of the 11 existing major variants, I guess that’s not enough? Where are the 2000-N, the 2000-B, the 2000-9, the 2000-E…

[AlvisWisla]

That sub-tree proves my point.
Smin already commented on it plenty of times as well.
South Africa added nothing that wasn’t already in the tree or things that had no domestic options.
It added unique vehicles that augmented lineups.

And the Benelux sub-tree is no different. Every vehicle class in the leak list is already in France, or not available to add.

[Mathll]

@AlvisWisla

unique vehicles

oops

@AlvisWisla

is already in France

as I have show before, no, France is missing a LOT of vehicles

@AlvisWisla

or not available to add.

same