Team killing policy - follow up thread

I find this a very interesting approach.

For me personally, it is important that inappropriate behaviour has consequences. It should hurt if you take an ally out of the battle, whether on purpose or not.
This has happened to me too. No question about it. I usually communicate immediately. That alone has often defused the situation.
Once someone even said that it was better in the end because otherwise the opponent would have got the kill. In the meantime, I prefer to abort such approaches and risk my own end rather than that of my ally. Two teamkills happened to me. I swore to myself that there wouldn’t be a third.

At first, the 250GE seemed a bit much to me. But on second thought, it didn’t. In the end, the number of teamkills should drop drastically and therefore also the GE payouts.

Have there already been suggestions in the suggestions section that were rejected by Gaijin?

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Idk - but the main hurdle for any suggestion is to get an upfront approval by gaijin (so that it can be presented within the forum).

So there is, ofc, the possibility that something similar was proposed several times in the past - but never presented in the forum.

The biggest hurdle I see are the players who like to take the law into their own hands for whatever reason and want to prevent such a system.

I am not sure about that.

  • Imho the main reason why the players complain in this thread is that team kills happen in the first place. Then it is a matter of perspective (so missile goes rogue vs fully intended team kills) followed by “realism” vs “video game” and then we see the “Judge Dredd” approach to punish stuff like kill stealing.

So without reliable data (how many team kills happen in total and at which BRs) it is actually very hard to come to the right conclusions.

Even without data i would guess that the majority of team kills were committed by 12-16 year old kids either based on missing experience, frustration or plain stupid / reckless behaviour.

From my perspective the easiest way to get rid of 70-90% of team kills in Air RB would be to disable friendly fire (or no damage output but depletion of ammo) within the first 60-120 seconds of each game.

And then a severe punishment like proposed above.

Imho gaijin is simply not consistent - they claim that friendly fire is part of their understanding of reality (=realism) - but they simply forget that this “realism” needs to be accompanied by consequences as irl friendly fire in aerial combat is/was rather rare (so statistically insignificant) and led to consequences - but team kills in wt have no consequences…

Your description of reckless team mates bombing no matter if friendlies are near or not is imho the direct result of missing consequences.

30 Extremely Sarcastic And Funny John Wick Memes Memy - Vrogue

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I don’t know if anyone has ever said that to you before … you have a really pleasant way of presenting your views in an understandable way. I just had to get rid of it. o7

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I am very, very surprised to found out that the auto-banning/kicking system has such low performance. Maybe there is some technical difficulties in terms of determining tk behavior in the middle of a dogfight, but it shall be very clear that team killing in the first 3 minute of the game, close to the airport, is absolutely on purpose. I have been, and noticed dozens of team killing right after takeoff in top tire RB battles. If the closest enemy plane is still 70km away and you can’t even see them on radars, then there shall be absolutely no reason for one to use their misses at such range… At least a new mechanism shall be put in place:

  1. Any team killing within the first few minutes, between the airport/frontline airport zone shall result in immediately kick out and immediately account ban.
    Reason behind is simple: there is no enemy, and you need to at least tap twice to use your missile (one for locking, one for launching). Thus, anyone team killing in this scenario shall be seen as doing so on purpose.
  2. Repeat team killing behavior result in lost of plane
    Currently the consequence is just account temporary banning and lost of about 20k SL. 20K SL can be easily earned with a few base bombing rounds, so the consequence is small, as as shown by https://forum.warthunder.com/t/team-killing-policy-follow-up-thread/54130/273, one could be able to reuse the plane for team killing until they lost all the stock SL. The punishment is limited. Imaging gaijin revoke your plane, or an entire level of the planes, for repetitive team killing: now one would lost the chance to team kill at a high tire and need to re-grind all the planes, which is a much more effective way to stop team killing. (notice how for him the efficiency of tk dropped when he is stuck at low tire planes)
    3.Reduction of RP gained
    This countermeasure is mainly for team killing for bases. The team killers sometimes team kill because they want to get bases, or more specifically, the research point. If team killers never gets the rp of bases, at least this reduce the number of team killing for bases.
    Now sometimes people might tk the teammate by accident, during dogfight, etc. The current punishment is enough for accident tk (not paying enough attention to location of teammates), so they will not be affected by the enhance of team killing policy, but team killing on purpose will definitely be affected.
    finally, do anyone know who is the GM to submit report of team killers? My friend was tk by another player today (the user complains that his 12.0 br jet enters into an 13.0 room and tk for such excuse, completely ignoring the fact that it is gaijin setting the ±1.0 br, which means 12.0 can (and nearly always) naturally enters into 13.0, due to the excess of 13.0 planes right after the update. I tried to ask for a apologize but he blacklisted me, and now I don’t have access to the chat (which he attacks my friend countless times) and lost such evidence. Any ideas what to do in this situation? (I did report in game, but just like what uncle said above, the auto banning does not work at an satisfying efficiency and accuracy…
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You find a list of GMs here:

https://forum.warthunder.com/u?asc=true&group=Game%20Masters&order=username&period=all

As written earlier in this thread:

  • Reporting of team killers via in-game reporting is useless
  • Reporting of team killers has to be done via server replay site
  • Reporting of team killers via server replay site is useless
  • GMs admitted that they don’t interfere with the auto-ban-system

Your description of the team kill experience of your friend looks like griefing. So go to the server replay site and search for the match, then perform a report for griefing.

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I like your ideas in general.

But the game has way too many flaws to justify an immediate account ban. I still see team kills via ramming - and the guy who got rammed is blamed as a team killer. Following your logic he would be out…

Some story for losing a plane or reduction of RP.

You might scare some (base bombing) griefers, but guys team killing out of frustration or team kill to prevent others to get ahead on the leader board don’t care about RP, same as guys acting as Judge Dredd…

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Thanks for the info!

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I think in the end of the day, and auto countermeasures could only deal with 50% of the situation… Many other method of team killing, such as ramming, is nearly impossible to be identified by bots. In most cases, they have to be checked by the game master or by gaijin staffs. Unfortunately it seems like game master has no power to take action on it (as they are more as volunteers then officials) and gaijin doesn’t really consider the team killing business as a “urgent” issue. It is very surprised that a similar “close to airport=autokick” idea exist on the old forum in 2018, and six years later nothing is implemented…

I will say the key is to separate the whole team killer group into smaller fragments and deal with one at a time, it’s always better to have less team killers, so first we deal with the base bombing team killing and pure griefers (near takeoff time team killing), then manually focusing on leader board stuff, which is much more of a headache as manual ban by GM/staff is the only option. The key here is first try to stop those that can be easily stopped with a few line of codes, then focus on the hard part. Afterall, having 10 troll focusing teamkilling for fun is still better then having not only 10 troll but also another 90 base bombing teamkillers as well. The lesser the better.

Thanks for your dedication on the whole issue. It is nice to have someone continue to monitor and discuss an issue.

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A new team killing thread:

Alright. I got a question for anyone who reads this.

In a match earlier I accidently descended upon a friendly jet. It was very smooth and it didn’t damage me, and I don’t think it damaged my teammate. Anyways, it was only bc I was typing in chat so I was focused on that and did not realize there was a guy under me. Anyways, when I accidently bumped him I quickly through myself off of him and apologized. Anyways, he proceeded to shot me down with a missile after I apologized.

Do y’all think that was called for? Was I in the wrong for that?

Well you apologized and he probably interpreted it as “intentional”. Be more aware next time. TK isn’t justifiable in any aspect.

FYI - In this replay:

https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/227978818285659448?public_key=UOWlwLc8M1wOUKRPSEy9

you can see me getting team killed (at 11:51) by the player: @MrColimba

Totally unproved - a clear team kill due to griefing - so the classic sc*m polluting Air RB lobbies on top of plain stupid team killers.

It would be great if you could use the replay site to report this sc*mbag - for griefing, as team killing reports are useless as we all know.

@OrsonES - i saw that you took action a while ago vs a guy who team killed a nuke carrier - that case and mine are identical, we were both killed by griefers; you might consider a similar handling. Thanks in advance!