Tanks Sitting Back Taking Potshots Doesn't Really Help The "TEAM"

Game Discussion Arcade Battle
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44

No thanks…

Not playing the objective is a sure way to lose the game… And not even trying for it shows a problem.

Because it’s just blame, and it does nothing to get the team doing anything.

The more often issue is the resulting fight over who is responsible, the throwouts by others who tell everyone to shut up, and take it to DMs/get a room, and the overall distraction caused by the assumption of the crying about the players, playing the game as they do, and as you do.

Where do you even read that out of that, because that’s genuinely not what was said… If you’re that desperate to paint me out as a villain in your mind, then you’re beyond reasoning, and that comes on the back of many on the forum having issues about my statements.

I often wonder if they actually comprehend what’s being put forth, and you just confirmed that my basis of thinking is sound.

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45

Only if they are all dying. Rushing the cap to overwhelm the small amount of enemies that went there is a valid strategy and can pay off. If they successfully take and hold the cap, they have done much more than most other players.

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46

i only do that with lightly armored stuff the the m56

47

Here you said it, your ding once in game where you can spawn multiple times. So youa re a one death leaver. I do teh same as you do. Also you got to explain me the game because you seem to have some kind of hidden knolge. Only your way to play the game is the right one. That is the conculsion hence all that whining.

My statment is true its always the base rushers crying because I did not once see a post from “potshoot” players doing the same to others. Live and let live.
But being so dense and not seeing the merit in clearing out the enemy so teh captured point actualy can be held is something new. Apprently thert eis only one way to play and this would also explain gajins new push for the tiny maps with coridors only.

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48

Its what all rushers do and they die 99% to “potshot” players and cry on the forum that they are the problem.

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49

Funnily enough, the only reason such a “potshot” playstyle exists is because people are either too dumb to approach carefully or are trying to flank/push and take some initiative and ground.

If nobody pushed, matches would be a pixel-peeping hull down meta (aka STALEMATE) where the guy with the strongest turret wins. If you actually find that fun, Tier VIII Premium battles in WoT exist. If I wanted to sit still for 20 minutes, I would sit in the courtyard smoking a cigarette.

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50

You’ve absolutely got that wrong… Like, totally and beyond a doubt, you do not understand what was said, so you cannot base any assumption on it.

Who is that directed to… Because you are still mistaken as all heck, and you cannot admit it because you’ve doubled down on this…

51

That’s so septic that it’s absolutely needing to be directly stomped on… I’m a rusher, I don’t complain on the forums, and the fact that you’re trying to make out that I ODL for some weird reason because I highlighted that first rush, and I die, who cares, you then assume I ragequit and leave, ignoring the fact I could spawn again, and do spawn again, to keep at it.

Your want to paint someone out as bad is a you problem, which I suspect comes from the idea that if you make out someone is bad, it makes you feel as though you are doing better. Which you aren’t.

52

Not all maps are “advance to point,cap then move forward to prevent enemy from leaving spawn”
Some maps have secondary objectives that need to be fulfilled before you can cap…like clear pesky rats that will turn match on its head if allowed to snipe at caps or spawns .
On others you need to control choke points

But in general all nations (especially Germans and US) suffer from game that is played in single player mode.
Playing as Germans or US all you really need is 7 players + one competent spaa to win most matches and that is only if players play roles they chose at start of the match .
Just looking at movement of your team you can say in first 30 seconds that it will be loss …J is your friend …why waste time and lions on people that refuse to learn .

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His K/D is 0.65. It’s probably projection.

54

I’m going to contest this.

The first to cap AND hold the point wins.

Very often, I see my team push very well with good momentum and then get picked off as they are out of position and are easy kills. I open tab, and see half my team has 1 deaths or maybe even 2 and have left while the enemy is still fully active.

Then the enemy rolls in, easily takes the caps and wins.

I’ve also been on the other side of this. Enemy got out of position getting an early cap, got taken out and we took the caps and then had the numbers advantage/tank advantage (since people often first-spawn their best tank).

Sometimes, when my team is heavily british and italian and low on main nations, an extreme variant is reached that’s essentially a guaranteed win:

Do NOT take the most contested cap, instead set up nearby in an ambush that has overwatch of the point, let them trickle in and kill them while they’re exposed and vulnerable then take the caps. This almost guarantees a win if the map allows setting such an ambush up.

Now, some maps ARE decided by whoever first takes the cap, but that’s less because of the cap and more because the objective has very advantageous sightlines either into the spawn, or common approaches to contest it.

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55

Mines probably worse, but there’s no reason to actually stat-check or even bash them over their stats.

I just play, and I don’t care how bad I get hit, or how ‘unfair’ I could make out that I got got, it’s just straight flat out part of the game.

The rough and tussle has long been avoided and constantly advised against being in, but it’s completely ignorant to the actual objective. Embrace the furball, and just get on in there.

Where winrates are a checkable stat, that one I have always considered more of a team stat because it takes the team to actually win, and thus squading makes it possible to make that actually reflect you directly.

But seeing as no-one truely squads anymore because the ‘why bothers’ got out there telling people the negatives, makes them not as common.

You can absolutely do that, but not trying to make an actual effort you won’t get far.

That brings about the concept of people dismissing and deriding effort, judging they are psychic, know how it’ll roll, not playing roles that are required when they are required, and just leaving the team to do whatever they assume will happen.

You can get as tactical as you want, but without actually squading…

This won’t actually happen…

56

That first cap isint all too important. depends whats happening. and type of map. Pushing map as in vertical or a horizitonal map. in which case, figuring out where the important battles is, and removing spawn campers are more critical.

If for example the team stops because they see one tank. That one tank is buying anywhere from 15 seconds to 1 minute. maybe two. I dont know. some teams do a full stop, the moment they see an enemy tank. YEA, sure. I guess getting the cap or going past the cap and having them all see that person there is beneficial. But if they smell blood and bum rush the you or the cap anyways. That is just a dead tank+ plus loss of control near the zone. Once they swarm they are swarming.

Holding the point generally means pushing past it, or holding some vantage point to deny a push onto it.

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Th most contested caps are the easiest to collapse by flanking, hammering, or cass. so long as they still have something infront of them holding their attention hostage.

Ambushes can be nice, to mitigate but its not a situation of win more when ahead. its more of a mitigation when behind. Kills early in match are more valuable than kills mid match. especially when the otherside is running out spawn points or spawning a bunch of AA.

When teams feel like thier losing, they will likely spawn their aa to get it spaded.
once thier two aa on the team, just expect more. :- not many players will use aa aggressivelyto lay down blinding fire to mess up any scope shots. to decap, or to flank. on top of being much less threatning and easier to kill giving spawn points back to the other side. not having enough tanks near the front really hurts.

The maps that have those advantages that favor a side to take it. and to be able to hold it. Its more a competence issue on the side of the playerbase not knowing how to approarch the map. If the general playbase is passive on a spawn side that is favored once it pushes past a certain point on the map.
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Such as this one, where North spawn heavily favores hyper aggresion. and is heavily disfacored for defensive gameplay. Sightlines. angles. ease of flanking in the town inbetween C and A sporadic cover.
North side should just ignores C in favor of invading the streets. WIth the real objective of controling the intial two streets going to C. That should be the opener. Smoke it to get in there. Block it up if you all die. make it a mess. Once thier a brawl on the two streets. Controlling C is easy. and taking A is even easier. sometimes its even eaiser to take A then to fully cap C. 1 tank can hold up 4-6 tanks for a protracted period in those areas. in the streets.

For south side, it favors defense eithier on the two steets plus some tanks on the outside to discourage a push onto the two main streets.
Its a slight favor, its still easy to collapse on, and bomb it from how predictable positions will be covered. The better position is to push foward past C, into the town. And deny all crossing from the river and bridges. its defensible, hard to flank from north side, decent sightlines. plenty of soft and hard cover. having a strong foothold here, allows for a quick move to B decap, and once your there. spawn killing just gets easier once the numbers begin to drop.
Unlike the other side where you are fairly protect at spawn from how all the sightlines are. but you just cant get out its heavily pressured besides wasting a lot of time… :/

For north side. your trading C for pocession of the streets. If you can deny it early, great. but its not the main objective. The streets are. control that, and the match is much easier to dominate from.

Now. eithier side can royaly screw thier advantages. South side can decide to snipe along the coast. in whcich northside snipers typically have a vantage on that. with better cover and sight line breakage. Pair it with north side not being encourage to sit at thier spawn to snipe from where spawn is located.
where south side is somewhat enocuraged because plenty of people will spawn close to beachside.
see a tank. procede to snipe. :/ jeopardizing control of the two main roads because too many people are beachside sniping at moving objective that they can find.

A strong defense on the two main roads. are EASY to bomb/rocket or smoke at. So even if the defening team is ahead. it can still be bypassed, or demolished. by the 2nd half of the match. by the last third. is generally to late. the drive is way to long.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/6ruri2/port_novorossiysk_map_terribly_unbalanced/
Going by this mans post. he was problably playing when North side players were passive. And south side players were equally passive. sitting on the roads defending C.

Not having the balance conversation on the map. More of approach to the map.How it favors diffrent mob behaviors of the playbase. Passive teams dont win north side on this map. the map plays agaisnt them for it. so during passive playbase periods. this map sucks northside. But when players are aggresive, this can be a fun map for eithier side. so long as your not a sniper. im sorry, thier not many sniping spots or areas where you will be highly valuble to the team. if you are, your problbaly with with a passive lobby.

now because of how the sightlines work on these streets. You only need the team to push on the streets. it can be done with a duo just fine. it just takes longer. it might be mid match by the time the main road supremecy is established with a duo, and holdable. compared to a 4 man squad where mid match is more likely a triple cap or a double cap from northside. with the double being eithier A+B or B+C
while realistic being able to cap the middle one, but hey, the enemies are infront. Leave the mid cap for the respawning teamates. decaps are fine to bleed those tickets.

5 Likes
57

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Another one.

B can easily be pushed past from eitheir side in favor of controling the chokepoint. 1 tank can hold the entire team regardless of numbers. since its just hard to cover the distance without gettint shot multiple times to contest the chokehold.
If its not contested, it can be shoved into spawn and prevent any reincorments from going anywhere. on top of aggroing the enemy team. so, you can just pull back after that or duke it out. is still somewhat favorable despite opening up their flanking potential.
C also as power spot. from eithier side that can deny the entireity of the open area :/
teams that respond to this, will stop going C and move to bravo to contest the sniping from low ground, and then push for A. thier a lot more effective angles from B to C then thier are from C to B.
on top of some keen vision abuse that can happen at those distance, so light tanks become pretty important to scout targets to ensure that they remain rendered in.

This map added additiona spawn locations. That now negates areas of the map that could defend C if it was going to get pushed heavily with very little effort and numbers.C6 could defend a push from red. with the help of 1 other tanker near C dialed in to repel the push.

most of the kills will come from the C6 position. since the one near C needs to simply survive and aggro the attention. if they dont focuse him, great, he has some awesome turrrets shots or side shots he can go for.

A is a dead zone. not super importnat. its nice if its capped. but nearly inrevelent due to a lack of power projection from those positions and how vurnable it is from eithier C or B. :/ though South side gnerally has an advantage to cover it defensivly and easier remove themselfs from it.
where are north side, has a tough time pulling away from midcap and simply getting to it, is a lot risk from eithier C or B. its a lot risk. on the other end. more people will likely go C or B because thier not going A. contesting the two power projection regions on the map.

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58

Yea, nah, I don’t need a wall of text explaining a heap of depth into the mere mentioning of actually making effort early in the match…

Even another… No…

This comes back to actual map tactics and knowledge, compared to the fact of even getting the first to the objective to hold it.

59

Preatty great and detailed explanations, I couldn’t describe it better even if I wanted too.

Sadly not many will understand what You are talking about as they lack experience and knowledge about the game (sometimes common sense too).

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60

Thats where we get the clustering of player holding hands, and the column of the fear ridden.

Early into the match. You could just let the team make initial contact while sitting near spawn, then pick a direction once you have an idea what and where stuff is. its not super often that the team collapses immediately on contact. Pushing map or not, staying back prevents a lot of dumb deaths on First spawn and more often then not, having the option to position to collapse a location on the map. Since your not pinned down or Forced down a direction in the first minute of the match from initial contact.

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61

Just going to mention, I ignored your posts because of the fact it was at the end of having to defend myself from assumptions being made that were erroneous by misrepresenting what was said.

Still though, many aren’t playing with the team, there’s people who actively seek to tell people turn off their chat, and tell them not to bother about even trying to work with the team that isn’t there.

Commonly I do tell people to get in there, and if people think this costs tickets, then maybe it does, but thing is at the end of the day it’s just a game, which many take too seriously, and in the same breath, not seriously enough.

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This message is probably gonna be deleted however try to read less of a soaring practitioner response. They are how shall I say this, hmmm…less gratuitous. Picking my words in this case.

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On this at least, a not insignificant part of it has to do with… the quality of our playerbase. Ground RB is surprisingly more civilized despite the whole WW2 german tanks attracting a certain audience, but frequently in air RB I’d see players say some rather heinous takes about the (lack of) humanity of entire groups of people just because of what they were born as or which country they happen to live in.

This discourages the use of chat significantly.

For teamwork itself, it seems to vary significantly between day of week, time of day and what nations are on your team. As a rule of thumb I found as a middling player - when your team has mostly minor nation players, you’ll experience more teamwork and mutual support over the default big name big three. Italy tends to be, ironically (given their… questionable tanks), one of the better sources of “hey, these folk will carry a victory for me”.

There’s also counter-productive systems of incentives. For people wanting permanent service record scores - assists and objectives are not visible. You could be an amazing light tank player who gets over 10+ if not more assists each match and highlighting every enemy, but because you did not get any kills - none of that achievement is recorded. You could be a rat who maneuvers around the enemy to back cap them after they moved off the objective and finish a match with 5 captures, but again - nothing outside of maybe a better win rate.

And of course rewards for capturing as well. If multiple tanks are taking a single obj, everyone gets less rewards. If your tank is slow and you reach the obj too late - you traded position for essentially nothing. If you take the enemy objective in [Battle] mode and bring it to almost 75% captured and then die to a PE8 dropping a bomb on you - no reward either, even if your team finally rolls in and takes it a little afterwards.

Heroes & Generals - another WW2 F2P combined arms game with some frustrating P2W mechanics - improved incentives in objective gameplay. The actual capture zone and the bonus rewards areas were different - you’d get extra reward for actions even if you did not directly enter an objective. Killing enemies while holding point gave extra score, killing enemies on point from afar gave extra score too.

The above, of course, does not nullify my earlier point that Ansaraina had sort of said so themselves - position/locations tend to determine who wins, not the points captured. Sometimes these overlap, sometimes they don’t. During my 2nd battle of El alamein matches, pushing too aggressively to get a point tends to favour the team that pitches camp in various sniping positions and picks off the enemy team. Sinai also feels similar - teams that commit a lot of tanks to the town objective tend to lose to ones that took their time to drive behind the other team to farm them from a better angle. I’ve had many games that look like a guaranteed win suddenly turn into half my team gone while the enemy was still in full force, and games where we were 50% gone ticket-wise from caps but had a full team and won handily after the enemy team had a few players leave after 2 deaths.

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