Tailgunners don't like to fire

This is nonsense - gunners in general are added to plane classes which are based on their designated purpose slower than pure fighters - in order to defend themselves. This has nothing to do with defending whilst bombing.

If you get caught in bombardier view by enemy aircraft you simply messed up your target approach or lost situational awareness at the most important time.

Dude - u played 3 hours in bombers in realistic battles.

All your points are showing that you have little to zero experience how to fly a bomber and how to use gunners - it is pointless to repeat your povs over and over again if you deny basic weaknesses in your logic.

I mean it’s a free world, so feel free to post whatever you want - but if you post such views in a public forum, you have to be prepared for feedback - even if you don’t appreciate it.

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???

Your feedback is “use manual gunners”.

This is antithetical to the post’s topic and reason for being created.

AI gunners should be able to kill enemy players without player input if the enemy plane flies in a straight line.

You require that the game plays for you - instead you play the game.

That was clear from the beginning, but thx for confirmation. The main purpose of this game is PvP action - wt is basically a plain shooter - and flying around with the option to kill players without manual input is exactly the opposite of PvP interaction.

Some time ago a guy with similar mindset asked that ai gunners in bombers strafe ground units. Another asked that his tank commander will fire automatically at enemy planes…i mean just ask for a mode which gives you without any interaction 20k SL and 3k RP just by pressing the button “to battle” and wait 8 minutes (crew lock) to press it again…

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As you stated I’m well aware of what the actual focus of the game is. If bombers had functional ai gunners maybe they would be capable of their job, bombing ground targets.

Instead the only efficient way to play them is to fly to the stratosphere or to die and get to the next match.

If you wish for the game’s systems to remain what they are advocate so. Stop making convoluted statements that try to wriggle around what you’re trying to say.

You want manual aiming to be required. I do not.

Naval has auto targeting of Air and Naval with your secondary guns. It’s understood that controlling all functions of a multi crewed vehicle would be asinine.

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You are the one requesting a buff of ai gunners - but not based on actual experience (which would give your request at least some kind of credibility), no, just for your personal convenience.

And if you shift goal posts or invent such things like distraction fire or jump from tail gunner to back seat gunner and back to tail gunner - you are the one producing one nonsense statement after another.

Therefore i kindly ask you to stop quoting me - there is a reason why i do not talk about stuff i have no clue about - use this as an example and stay within your area of expertise - and this is neither aerial warfare nor bomber / gunner game play.

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I do think there should be some sort of buff, though not back to historic levels. However, given that Gaijin, by the Skills Bonus award, has made it clear that only Kills really count for anything, I don’t expect to see any change. That’s pretty poor given that the game is marketed and sold on the premise that it has thousands of historic vehicles but customers aren’t told that many if them are almost useless. As has already been pointed out in this thread, Crew Points for additional gunners is now almost a complete waste.

Using bombers as gunships with AI gunners is unrealistic. Expecting the pilot to fly the aircraft while manning all of the gun stations is also unrealistic. AI gunners are therefore required, it’s just trying to find a more equitable balance that seems to be the problem. Of course, some folk will be against any sort of buff as they see the bombers as some sort of free pinata to ease their grind and up their K:D ratio.

At the very least, Turret Convergence (the merged aiming point of several turrets/stations) needs to be separated from Gun Convergence (the merged aiming point of one turrets guns). That would help those folk who do actually take charge of manual aiming.

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Players were abusing the AI gunners’ range and accuracy in sim.

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Your main thought is that manual input should be required to have defensive fire work.

Rather than whinging about my choice not to waste time grinding a gameplay style that isn’t rewarded in War Thunder to discover the “hidden truth” of manual aiming something that is not what I’m advocating for, why don’t you defend your actual position?

Why should manual aiming be required for bomber gunner AI to be functional?

Is there no middle ground where they don’t become flying flak towers versus the current system where they are completely non-functional?

Positions like this:

and this:

simply show that you are as lazy as these kids crying to gaijin like:
“Plz do this” or “plz do that” - just pathetic.

I have zero clue what was unclear with this:

This was the polite form of:

  1. I am not interested in your nonsense.
  2. If you need somebody to talk - buy a pet.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Edit: Flagged as off topic when the main message is clear: Players want to adjust game mechanics as they are unable or unwilling to gain the necessary skill set. Therefore clearly not off-topic.

Then please don’t post in this thread further.

We’re here to have a discussion on the efficacy of tail gunners not hear you whine about someone not wanting to have to manually aim them.

That’s not true, fictional languages still classify as languages.

Even fictional languages that aren’t fully fleshed out.

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It took too long, i agree - but actually i had some fun.

I mean there is nothing wrong with asking for improvements, but if those requests were addressed by guys which have zero experience in bomber game play and openly admit that they are simply too lazy to learn the art of manual gunnery - it simply supports the stereotypes regarding bomber players (pressing space bar, free kills, wasted slots, etc).

Bomber game play saw countless open and hidden nerfs in the last 4 years and was reduced to a simple grinding tool which requires zero skill if the players are happy if they have the chance to drop and die immediately after the drop - best example were the countless B-25s etc running bot scripts.

The game needs fundamental changes to restore the viable role of bombers within the game. Ai gunners play no role in that as the key to survive lies within avoiding engagements with enemies in the first place - if you need ai gunners something went wrong.

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“the key to bombing is to be able to bomb without ever having to see an enemy fighter”

I do not understand this thought process. You’re saying you hate this gameplay but at the same time are advocating for it.

Fictional languages do not exist in the real world as almost no one speaks them. Yes, their languages. However not a language of an existing country. So it is a technicality at best. Anyway we’re off-topic

Can’t agree less. Too many people carp on the forums about your problem aka skill issue. If they wanted help they could ask people who are trying to teach newer players. But that’s only if you request assistance and refuse to listen=pointless for us.

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I don’t understand how AI gunners which are under Gaijin’s control is a problem for players.

I did and I quote:

This is not a bug. It is an indented decsition that they are ineffective.
So this:

is useless, since by definition it is not a bug.
It is just another thing, you can observe and critisize.
Same with CAS being effective. This also is not a bug.

In what situation were they ineffective? Which aircraft?