True, with more vehicles and nations added Gaijin should make sure to have the grind reflect that.
Completing the game doesn’t mean reaching the top of one nation only, they need to encourage playing more nations.
It’s not the point of this suggestion specifically, but I do agree it’s necessary.
Doubling rp for nations with subtrees isn’t the solution imo, that would mean some nations (the ones with subtrees) get more rp than others so a single tree can be grinded faster if there’s many trees foldered with it. They should just make the grind less absurdly painful, especially at higher tiers
Yeah I agree. When I said that I meant a general RP increase across the entire game, not bound to any condition. After all when there is more content in the game, the rewards should reflect that to allow players to keep up.
But again, this is an unrelated suggestion that doesn’t include any reward changes by itself.
If you are interested in a suggestion that actually promotes playing more nations, I made a separate suggestion about achievement-based research bonus.
It introduces a permanent 10% bonus to RP rewards for each completed nations, which stacks the more nations you complete.
Of course looking at the reworked subtree system, these additional nations could also provide such a research bonus, which helps balance the added amount of vehicles and the time players have to spend to unlock them.
Tbh 10% ain’t a lot for a whole nation grind
Overall I also think the reward multiplier of vehicles should get much higher at high tiers to compensate for the drastic cost increase at these tiers
Just now we finally got a confirmed vehicle limit per rank, so we actually have a proper way of defining how much space is in a tech tree!
According to this, a vehicle folder is limited to 3-4 vehicles. Since we already know the hard set limits of five lines per tech tree, as well as three vehicles (potentially folders) for each line per rank, it’s now possible to fully calculate the exact amount a research tree has!
So assuming all the space is used regardless of logical placement, we can calculate this as:
5 [Lines] * 3 [Folders] * X [Vehicles per folder] = Total amount of space
Now using the high estimate [4] from the given value of 3-4 as our X, we can calculate a maximum space limit:
5 * 3 * 4 = 60
This gives us 60 vehicles per rank as the maximum available space, which gives us 480 vehicles in total for the ground and air research tree with eight ranks each, 420 for bluewater naval with seven ranks, 300 for coastal naval with five ranks and lastly 180 for Helicopters spanning three ranks.
On paper this seems like a lot, however when keeping in mind logical progression this does break apart rather easily. This is also reflected in official statements
Here we see that this limit is only a theoretical maximum, there will be 3-4 vehicles at most in a folder, and vehicles in a folder are required to be placed around the same BR.
Additionally, research trees all follow a general structure, where you couldn’t simply place any vehicle in any line. Mostly they are divided by vehicle type, but where progression allows also sometimes by other factors like manufacturers or their historical role. In current subtrees, we also sometimes see a division by nation, such as in the mostly Finnish / Hungarian lines in the Swedish / Italian research trees.
Reasonably it can be said that especially when dealing with multiple nations in a research tree, space becomes much more of an issue than it would seem from the theoretical maximum.
It also seems Gaijin have noticed these issues, as seen with the recently leaked restructuring of the British ground research tree. But I won’t go into this too much for now, since it will be much better to do that once official news are released.
Subtrees currently are already known to bring many imported vehicles that to players that have already played them might seem uninteresting. With reworked subtrees this becomes even more noticeable, as imported vehicles often form the backbone of their respective nations militaries.
However recently @Rowiek has submitted a great suggestion that helps deal with this issue and more
Functionally it is relatively simple, giving 20% RP discounts for both research and modifications on vehicles a player has already researched or spaded respectively elsewhere. If a player has already done this a second time an additional 10% discount is applied for a total of 30%.
Mechanics:
- Base Discount: If a player has fully researched and spaded a vehicle (or a very similar variant) in one nation, they receive a 20% RP discount when unlocking that vehicle in another nation.
- Extra Bonus: If the player has also completed the same or nearly identical vehicle in a third tree, they gain an additional 10% RP discount, totaling up to 30% RP reduction for subsequent unlocks of the same platform.
- Discounts would apply to both RP required to unlock the vehicle and RP required to spade modules (optional, but recommended).
Unlike RP boosts that often apply only to base RP and have less than stated effects on actual earnings, the discount to the price directly allows the grind to be notably faster by those exact 20 - 30%.
This bonus also isn’t limited to just vehicles across nations, but also functionally identical vehicles of the same type.
Eligibility Criteria:
- Vehicles must share the same chassis/frame/platform and be functionally very similar.
- Examples:
- F-5E in USA, China, and Germany.
- T-55 in USSR, East Germany, and Finland.
- Leopard 2A4 variants across Germany, Sweden, and Italy.
For an added example within a single nation, this might apply to the foldered Type 74 (F) after researching and spading the Type 74 (E).
Please go support his suggestion, since it can really help make it more enjoyable for players to branch out across different nations while giving no downside at all.
I’ve always thought vehicles should be cheaper when you own them in another tree, guess I’m not the only one then
T-4-6
complete sentence
I think this should be added to the game as soon as possible.
Wow! Bud! I didn’t know u have this excellent thread here! I love it!
With Gaijin continuing to want more and more sub-trees even if the host nation tree doesn’t need them(and many of the sub-trees have enough for a tree), we need this more than ever.
Not only would it help sub-trees that people think have no place in the game, as it’s “nothing but C&P” despite the great pick of unique vehicles that Gaijin seem to hate to add, except as unobtainables. It helps with the room needed for both nations, as few sub-trees as many nations with sub-trees had enough stuff to fill all lines, and many sub-trees need 2+ lines for their stuff.
Points said before, but still doesn’t change how true they are.
Previously the color layout of the suggestion has made it difficult and in places even impossible to read the contents of the suggestion. The main contributing factors to this were two of the colors used as accents / highlights used in the suggestion.
These have been changes, and will continue this updated format going forward.
The first of these was the color “Gold”, a slightly darker yellow tone that has been used for the nice contrast it had to both the main “Heaven” blue titles and the grey background. However when viewing the forum in light display mode this could be more difficult to read on the white background.
Following this update, the accent color has been replaced with “Orange”, which has a similar appearance in the standard dark forum mode, but is much more visible in the light forum mode.
The second change was done to the title of the subtree infobox, which was previously colored “White”. This was done to set it apart from “Heaven” blue regular titles, however made this title near unreadable in the light forum mode.
To combat this effect, this infobox was simply given a “Heaven” blue title.
Lastly, the color “White” was also used to highlight certain words individually, which helped them stand out more than standard “bold letters”. However in the light forum mode this had the opposite effect, making them entirely invisible.
I considered changing these to “Heaven” blue highlights, however this might cause confusion with links, which show in a rather similar blue color. Because of this, the highlight color “Orange” is brought back to highlight parts of text where simple “bold letters” aren’t enough.
I hope this makes the suggestion more accessible for all players!
We can list the subtrees separately as a system and place each country in a different folder, allowing subtree vehicles to be carried in different main systems but limiting the number of subtree vehicles to prevent OP queues
example：Assuming a maximum of 3 subtree vehicles, you can carry a total of 3 vehicles from any subtree country in your queue
But what if you wanted to make a line-up of just the sub-tree nation?
Having a limit would make that impossible.
Limit the use of only 3 sub tree vehicles per queue, regardless of how many main tree vehicles you carry, you can only carry 3 sub tree vehicles
This can cut off the OP queue composed of pure subtree vehicles, which require a master system to reach the top level in order to develop
This would not be possible, as there would not be any subtrees or main trees any more. All nations are equal, meaning all nations can function as main nations, and none is put above others.
Limiting some of the nations to three per lineup would prevent them from forming full lineups, which would make them impossible to play individually.
For example a player that wants to play the Indian nation could not do this if only three Indian vehicles could be in a lineup. This would force him to play other nations which, while ecouraged, should not be forced.
This brings up another issue, there should not be a “master system”.
All nations in a folder are equal nations with the ability to cooperate. A player can choose to play one or more of these nations, but is not bound to any main one. The choice of which one is the “main” is purely up to a player.
As for balance, I don’t think there is anything that makes for example the full Indian lineup less balanced than the full British lineup. It is simply another nation, just like how Britain makes British lineups and Sweden makes Swedish lineups, India will be able to make Indian lineups and Finland will be able to make Finnish lineups.
Combining vehicles from foldered nations is also not any different compared to existing subtrees as the hard limit of ten purchaseable lineup slots controls lineup size to the same level enforced now.
Yeah tbh I think the lineup part should stay the way it is right now, with just shared lineups where you can put whatever you like
It should be like this
