Your suggestion requires the same exact overhaul that having customized research visuals would have:
Separation of the mechanic of research and the visual representation of the tech tree.
With that, people that aren’t offended by other nations being with their country can have it all on one page/window, and for your preference you can segregate the nations.
And yes, I am using the literal dictionary definitions of words in the previous sentence; no connotations.
Not really. It does require a new research order, but a vehicle can still only be in one place of the research order and there cannot be a toggle to switch it around. There is no separation of research order and the visual representation, instead the research order changes by putting vehicles in their own nations.
Current Research Order
Reworked Research Order
You can’t have both at the same time, and you especially can’t have a toggle between the two without destroying the games progression.
Your problem is that you think the rework is a visual change. It is not.
Sir… I feel your post assesses my post incorrectly.
As for your think, those vehicles would either get disconnected or be connected off-screen as well.
I can’t visualize it for you at this time.
They can be, but the issue is players would simply use the toggle to change research order, which would essentially make large parts of the trees skippable.
As much as I’m all for changes that benefit players like this, it also doesn’t seem realistic in the slightest.
If there is a toggle there needs to be a fixed research order that is the same no matter how it’s displayed, which sadly doesn’t seem possible when switching between one 5 line tree for multiple nations and multiple 5 line trees for single nations each.
Though if you do have an idea how this would work you could propose that here as well.
I would just like Gaijin to reconsider their stance on Australia not being a British subtree. There’s a dozen Australian vehicles in the British tree.
Voting time for the Research System Poll is over and the results are in! With a 90 to 10% difference Shared Research has won the poll and is here to stay!
The Winning System - Shared Research
The Shared Research is explained in more detail in the initial Reworked Research System Update post, as well as the main suggestion.
I do actually have a concern, with this system.
How do you pick a vehicle in a different sub-tree? As requires switching pages, and you can’t switch pages without WT automatically picking your next research vehicle.
Let’s say you unlocked a tank but you want to research something in one of the other nations in the folder, how do you switch pages to do that? As WT currently does not allow that, as due to what I pointed out earlier if I switch tabs(going from ground to air, switching nations etc) it auto-selects the next vehicle to put RP into.
I’ll accept the shared research win, but I still think it should be togglable like ground-to-helicopter research.
That’s actually a pretty good concern. This system would require the nation selection(within the respective folder) to be available to cycle through all pages of a vehicle type a faction would have to offer.
I’ll put some more thought into it, then add a more detailed solution to the suggestion.
This is not a good idea, as many of the sub-nation’s vehicles are sprinkled throughout the main lines as well.
Picture for reference, you can see the Hungarian ZSUs put in the SPAA line between Italian SPAAs, making sub-nation folders would break this.
That is actually one of the main principles of this rework.
Basically, you’d have two lines of SPAA, an Italian one for the Italy, and a Hungarian one for Hungary. You can still research both and use all vehicles as you can now, but you can also stick to just one country if you want.
While now a Hungarian player is forced to play Italy to get some of their nation as support in the tree, with the rework they would have a Hungarian tree that fully represents the nation and can still be used with Italy for gameplay purposes.
The idea is to get rid of the “sub” in subtree, instead it’s just two fully implemented nations that can be used in lineups together.
The rework doesn’t just move subtrees, it uses the additional space from the added specific national trees to expand both nations, so more new vehicles would be added to all nations involved.
That’s more Hungary and more Italy, everyone wins!
I’m afraid that would just mean even more grind and even more copy-pasta vehicles.
Yes and no.
Yes, since more vehicles automatically means more grind, and many nations if givem the space to expand could also get their foreign imports.
But…
No, because this would relieve “copy and paste” designs from many nations. Take for example the Hungarian aircraft or Finnish ground vehicles that are currently a mandatory part of their respective “main” trees. Both would now be optional for their nations and instead replaced in that tree by some of the many indigenous developments Italy and Sweden are still missing. Here the tree becomes more unique.
So if this is an issue for you, you can still choose to only plan nations with their own significant military development, and possibly even have a better experience than you can have now with some of them.
Yet it doesn’t hinder players wanting to play these other nations either, since they are still available. It even gives an option that isn’t there now, playing Finland or Hungary for example alone as their own nation.
Also keep in mind that subtrees themselves are very restrictive. Many current subtrees simply lack the space to add all of their unique options, and with more and more subtrees per nation and even rumored subtree plans for USA and USSR this issue will only become more present over time.
This is pretty good. I like that.
while non major nations should be in War thunder, they should stick to being a supplementary to the main tree.
my only issue with how subnations are at the moment is that countries are being torn between multiple trees, imagine being a Canadian wanting to play your vehicles, you got to grind three whole trees to do that when it should only be one for that experience
Also in response to your DM that I’ve had open for a month now as a tab.
That’s part of the concerns that this quote solves:
To use this as an example at this time.
Right now this visual page is directly connected to the research mechanic. It’s not a representation of the research system, it is the research system given a GUI.
This is the problem Gaijin faces for YOUR suggestion as well as more than 5 columns.
What I state is correct: They need to separate this visual representation and the actual researching of vehicles in order to change how the visual representation is.
The reason I oppose your suggestion as a “be all” solution [American slang for “everything solution”] is because it’s inherently nonintuitive and forces something that many players will never want.
The solution of separating the visual representation FROM the actual research system allows for your solution to be an OPTION for players, and the existing visual representation to exist for those of us that don’t want to go through extra menus.
On top of that, you’d need to figure out how to keep these lines existing when viewing other windows:
I hope this clarifies my concerns of your suggestion anywhere being close to forced upon people rather than being an option, as well as supplying the actual solution which would make multiple columns as well as your idea both able to exist.
Okay…. So what if there was a visual indicator of your currently researched vehicle?
As I said, optional.
Don’t force people into a system that’s objectively more menus.
There’s no non-anti-consumer reason to oppose player choice when the solution allows for it.
Sorry, I don’t understand.
Players do want this subtree idea, look at the voting results.
You want the current system, but with more columns to accommodate more trees? This is not possible, Gaijin says they cannot expand beyond five columns. Also this system is clearly more readable than having to add a horizontal sliding bar.
I don’t understand why you’re opposed to more folders. It’s not even like you have go through each one manually. You just hover over the main nation’s flag and that’s it. That’s like two seconds.
There wouldn’t have to be a need to keep current vertical lines. With these folders separating out the subtree, you could just research the particular vehicles you want (in that nation)
1- No, people that have found this allegedly want this; which outright replacement of a graphical interface with something that can’t even be AB tested with how things are currently would be a massive gamble which is terrible.
2- More trees aren’t necessary for most tech trees to begin with especially since we lack at least 1 more dedicated tech tree for Europe.
3- You do have to go through each one manually to begin research on something, or find something. Whereas currently it’s just a scroll wheel.
4- Which is what I believe can be done with separating the graphical interfaces with the research mechanics, with seamless transitioning.
That way this idea CAN be implemented, and people that want other graphical interfaces can get hose as well.
Calling something terrible is not objective. I understand you don’t like the suggestion, and that is perfectly fine, but that is also exactly what the “No” vote option in the poll is for.
So far your only proposed improvement to the suggestion is that you want to be able to turn it off, ignoring what the implication of such a feature would be. You seem less concerned about improving the concept then you are afraid something you don’t like might get too popular and be implemented.
