There’s a lot more other factors that has to be put into consideration, which you evidently have not. The weapons loadout of the aircraft is one factor, but definitely not the only. The state of the american teams, the large amount of premium spams, etc. One of which I’ve experienced, the 9L/M could be evaded even without deploying countermeasures. Remember the top speed of the A10C is around 600kph, and everything else within the A10C’s respective BR range can go above Mach 1, not to mention they usually just boom and zoom you until you’re dead. Even if you force someone to overshoot, and launch a missile, the missile’s initial velocity is so incredibly slow, that the enemy aircraft could very likely just outrun it. Though this is speaking from experience from playing the A10A Late, however with only 9L’s, but it’s the same principle under the missile performance wise. Additionally it is worth noting that most of the aircrafts, within the BR range of the A10A Late, their speed could easily go up to mach 1, now imagine how much quicker other aircrafts can go within the C variant’s br range. Not to mention the Su-25 at 11.3 BR could also carry R-73s, would you conider that an issue too?
What I can’t do is look at the A-10C the entire time while dogfighting to flare their missiles, it is entirely unfair to have to pay attention to one singular plane and not the other 15 planes trying to fight me.
In this situation, it sounds like you’d be dead regardless and it’s just a matter of time. The 9Ms just make it happen faster. Potentially you could also extend away to get out of the 10C’s range, then re-engage other enemy aircrafts. Again, there are other ways to be able to counter the A10C’s, your example was not exactly fair, considering it’s almost a lose lose situation dog fighting multiple aircrafts, the A10C just happens to finish you off and you putting the blame on it. However back to my initial statement, the vehicle is practically unplayable within EC maps, there’s no way to get a single kill unless the enemy aircrafts fly to you.
The ONLY way to kill an A-10C at that BR is with guns, so have to get above and behind it, pray he’s dumb enough to not look behind him, and hit my rounds. All he has to do is point and click while I’m dogfighting someone else. Thats unfair, it’s good they get no kills because they don’t deserve any.
The ONLY way to kill an A-10C at that BR is with guns, so have to get above and behind it, pray he’s dumb enough to not look behind him, and hit my rounds.
Personally I never had an issue killing the A10C’s from the back, even if they try to evade, I’d always hit them with guns while they’re trying to evade nonetheless. However this just reinforces my point of boom and zooming which isn’t hard to do. If you do miss your shots and you extend, even if the A10 gets his nose around to you and launch a 9M, its intial velocity is incredibly low, not to mention the A10C evading your guns further lowers its speed, which as a result, allows you to outrun it without even needing to flare, that is if you’re in an afterburning jet of course. Overall, there is a way, and likely more other ways to eliminate an A10C, whereas the initial statement and topic of this thread, subsonics like the A10s getting EC maps, makes it impossible to get any kills unless a player flys towards you, which obviously isn’t something you can control. Again, reinforcing a point I’ve made previously; not knowing how to do something properly, and not being able to do something is very different.
I understand where you’re coming from, within your point of view. However you’re also proving the fact that you can do something against it, just it’s hard to do so according to you, which I sort of disagree as I’ve never had any issues with it from a rare engagement. But nonetheless, my statement is its impossible to do something, while you’re arguing that it’s hard to accomplish something.
I am not dumb.
Your unskilled allies don’t determine your aircraft’s performance.
Remember, you are flying an attacker, not an interceptor.
Have you learned that missiles have their limits and you should try getting better launch solutions? Now imagine having a Po-2 with MICA-EM at 3.0.
Not much difference.
No. Why? No helmet mounted cuing system. The R-73 does not have nearly its full potential without it. The R-73 is SLOWER by a long shot. You only get TWO R-73s as opposed to FOUR AIM-9Ms. R-73 is easier to defeat, and requires less CM usage.
Trying to claim a plane that’s slower than rank 3s and only gets Aim-9s to fight 12.3 is somehow overpowered is honestly quite comedic.
Also, not to mention, A-10A also being put in toptier BVR maps for 0 reason.
You will see 10.3, which is the bigger problem here. Not every game is 12.3. Claiming that 11.3 is too high for something with HMCS and 4X AIM-9M, despite the airframe being bad is absurd. The aircraft at the same BR are using R-60 and AIM-9J equivalents. Not to mention, going as low to see things WITHOUT a way to defeat this missile is straight up stupid. I can guess you defend the A-10A as well, which STILL sees defenseless aircraft on a regular basis. You are flying a GROUND ATTACKER that is NOT MEANT TO BE USED as an AIR SUPERIORITY FIGHTER. Get used to having a bad airframe. A-10C should be 12.0 and A-10A should be 11.0 and 11.3.
You get one chance if the A-10 player has half a brain cell
Red is me, yellow is A-10C
The blue line is the AIM-9M going straight up my tailpipe at 1 km range
(Excuse my amazing graph quality)
You get the best AIM-9 in game. Let me say that again, you get the best AIM-9 in game, with the potential to get an even better one later.
The lowest BR AIM-9M carrier other than the A-10C is 12.3. The A-10C is slower so put it at 12.0. Problem solved.
Have you learned that missiles have their limits and you should try getting better launch solutions? Now imagine having a Po-2 with MICA-EM at 3.0.
That’s extremely different, Mica has the range, and has the maneuverability. The 9M has the maneuverability, though to a certain extent, but it doesn’t have the range due to its initial velocity being terribly low, which as a result decreases the range of the missile by a fair margin. If the PO-2 had Aim 9M’s, and it was placed in around 5.0, then yeah I’d say that’s fair. Its speed is incredibly low, it sometimes can’t even take off, and the match would be likely towards the end or is ending by the time it reaches an enemy target. The example you provided is very poor, if the A10C had Amraams or other modern fox 3’s, that’d be a complete story.
I don’t think you’re seeing the entire picture here. You’re arguing that it has great missiles and HMS, but you’re not taking into account of its incredibly low speed. Killing an A10 isn’t hard, honestly. Take your pick; extend and come around, extend and fly up, boom and zoom etc. What I have been trying to say for the last 3 days, is that it is practically unplayable in EC maps due how to large it is. By the time you arrive into the middle area of the map, the match would have been over.
The lowest BR AIM-9M carrier other than the A-10C is 12.3. The A-10C is slower so put it at 12.0. Problem solved.
You’re not making it fair, you want to kill the entire A10C’s playerbase. I’m arguing to make it fair by removing it off the EC maps. It’s best Aim-9 missile and HMS compensates its incredibly low speed. Just like how other aircrafts within its BR with an afterburner, only gets missiles like the 9G. Because it has the speed and possibly the turnrate depending on what aircraft it is. One factor of a certain aircraft is extremely low, while another factor compensates that. That’s how balancing works, by making it fair. You on the other hand, look at the pros, and completely ignore the cons of an aircraft, not to mention your intentions isn’t even trying to make it balanced, rather you want to kill the entire playerbase of that aircraft just because you find it hard to kill. That doesn’t sound very open minded nor fair. I can also confidently say of all the games I’ve played in the 10C, 90% of it has been full uptiers.
Red is me, yellow is A-10C
The blue line is the AIM-9M going straight up my tailpipe at 1 km range
Yeah… if you miss that shot mate, that’s honestly not even the game’s problem, that’s just a skill issue. I’ve always done that and never had an issue killing an A10 with an afterburning jet. If the A10 didn’t move and you couldn’t hit it, that is entirely your fault. If the A10 did manoeuvre out the way of your guns, it would have turned. Not to mention you dove on the A10, your velocity would have been much greater. By the time it gets its nose back around remotely close to you, you would have outran the missile’s range. Your graph, could only work, under the circumstances of you missing your shot of an A-10 that’s flying in a straight linear, and you pulled up in front of his nose, while he pulls up slightly to launch a missile at you. That is clearly skill issue and has absolutely nothing to do with the game’s balancing. This also proves that you don’t know how to dodge 9M’s, even after claiming that you do. I’ve also noticed you’re a low level premium spam. Now I’m not surprised of everything you’ve said, let alone the biased unlogical conclusions you came to.
A jinking A-10 will dodge the gun of a MiG-21 easily. If they fly in a straight line I will kill them but not if they have half a braincell.
If a plane is at a BR where as you said the only
way to kill it is its pilot’s stupidity than its OP. You are knowing using and abusing an OP plane. It would still be very good at its BR if you moved it because AIM-9Ms are still very good at any BR. If your constant full uptier stories are true (they’re not I see A-10Cs in almost every game I play at 11.0) than it would be better to be at 12.3 no? You get full downtiers every game than.
Also I would like to see you flare a 1km rear aspect AIM-9M shot with 15 pops of flares lmao
The last half of your post devolves into weird personal insults because you seemingly are struggling to stick by your point.
If your constant full uptier stories are true (they’re not I see A-10Cs in almost every game I play at 11.0) than it would be better to be at 12.3 no? You get full downtiers every game than.
That is not how matchmaking of the game works. My matches have been constant uptiers believe it or not. I’m not sure where the black hole is, but it is true.
If a plane is at a BR where as you said the only
way to kill it is its pilot’s stupidity than its OP
Never have I ever said this, not sure where you got this from. A10’s have always been the type of aircratft where if you, as an opponent, do not want to fight it, you don’t have to fight it. If you extend away, there is absolutely nothing it can do to force you to fight.
AIM-9Ms are still very good at any BR
This is strictly just not true.
Also I would like to see you flare a 1km rear aspect AIM-9M shot with 15 pops of flares lmao
Yes, I’ve done it before, it’s hard but not undo-able. However if an A10 gets 1km behind you in the Mig-21, you’ve already done something wrong, that is entirely on pilot error.
The last half of your post devolves into weird personal insults because you seemingly are struggling to stick by your point.
It’s an analysis of the situation and it rules out the amount of pilot error occured within your “graph”. If you take it as a personal insult, there’s nothing much I can say. My point is there, and have reminded you repeatedly about it, you just need to see it.
Sideways, I’ve just reviewed this entire message board and honestly all the evidence just points to you being unable to use tactics which are tried, tested and highly effective against the A10.
I find it absolutely absurd that you claim that Raze, who has trying to have a constructive discussion at any point insulted you.
If anything, you have totally misconstrued and derailed the entire point of the initial post in the first place. This was never a discussion of changing the A10’s BR, it was highlighting that All subsonic, including the A10 and Su25, should not have to see EC matches where they are forced to spawn on the air field with every other supersonic fighter.
Just because you have a personal gripe over some slight that the A10C has against you shouldn’t totally disrupt a conversation.
With the heavy reduction in base respawn speed and proliferation of premium players using bombs rather then using their aircraft for their intended role has made grinding a strike aircraft a hellscape as is. Having on top of that the possibility of playing EC matches only compounds the problem where many subsonics have to fly in a straight line for 10 minutes to even get to any AI targets, let alone bases, and that’s if they don’t get intercepted by an opportunistic pilot prior to that. Given this along with the many of these strike aircraft, especially the A10 and Su25, were specifically designed to operate from forward airfields or dirt strips close to the front line it would make logical sense that they would either not have to see such large maps like those in EC or have a spawn which would enable them to actually carry out their role rather then solely be an RP piñata for a fighter.
As a side comment on the A10 discussion: While I do agree that the balance of the A10C is off, it is not driven by the aircraft itself, rather the compression of BR’s around it. This is a consistent issue throughout the game, a clear example in GRB being the cold war heavy’s, which dominate in the down tier but are more often then not, cannon fodder in an up tier. Rather then complain about the A10 being to strong, maybe complain about how compressed the 10.0 to 12.0 battle rating is. There is no world were the A10 would be remotely playable against 12.0, it is cannon fodder already in these matches. Reducing the focus of balancing a vehicle purely to the capability of its weapon systems will never lead to a well balanced game.
I wouldn’t say the AIM-9M is good at any BR. The amount of complaints I’ve heard and times where the AIM-9M get deflected from a flare or two is a lot even if it’s the best in the game, it’s just not reliable. It sounds like you may need a bit more experience using the AIM-9M to see this, but having seeing A-10Cs, they haven’t really been a problem so far since they arrive pretty late.
As for the diagram, it looks like you dove down a bit too hard making you an easy target enough for even an AIM-9B to hit, having that controlled speed, you could have more time to hit that A-10 or turn a different direction so the A-10 can’t get you. Flying passed an A-10 with engines red hot explains the hit. 1 km with that speed should be enough for the AIM-9M to hit, but if you did flare or flew more to the side, you could of made it a lot harder for that A-10, but this is going by the diagram, unless you have a video to show otherwise, it does show a pilot error.
The only 10.3s I can think of that would have any real trouble against A-10C is A-10A and Su-25
Regular basis? I’ve nearly spaded A-10A Late. I could count how many flareless planes I’ve encountered on one hand, and they were all dumb F-1 players who didn’t needa get close in the first place.
Doesn’t matter what tag a plane has in Warthunder. The A-36 is a ground attack plane but everyone uses it as a fighter.
So what? it’s still an IR missile facing radar missiles on a crappy airframe.
That’s just your own skill issue being unable to aim
And let an A-10 run rampant on my AI targets or let the match time run out? That’s not how the game is played.
Again, extend, and come back around from above or anywhere behind the A10. If you boom and zoom them, there is abolutely nothing they can do. I don’t understand how you’re having trouble with this, I can only say it’s due to pilot error which is basically a nicer version of “skill issue”.
Name a BR where AIM-9Ms aren’t good.
It’s not the BR, its how it’s fired, and which aircraft it’s fired from. Just because it’s a 9L with IRCCM and smokeless rocket motor doesn’t mean anything, if you fired it at someone going mach 1.2 while you’re at 600kph yourself, the enemy aircraft will outrun the missile. Again, you’re looking into 1 dominating factor, and ignoring the rest. That is not how balancing works. For example, the F-104A. Carries two 9B’s only. There’s vehicles that carries four 9B’s in 8.3, does this mean the F-104A should go down in BR? No it does not. It’s horrible missile loadout is compensated by its incredible speed, and vulcan cannon. Same principle for the A-10C, horrible speed, does that mean it should go down in BR? No it shouldn’t. Its horrible speed is compensated by the 9Ms and its GAU cannon.
Prove it. With sensor view so I can see if he fired at a flare rather than you.
I don’t have to prove anything.
Screaming skill issue and calling me a spam is an insult and not remotely relevant.
I could instead say pilot error and only playing 1 vehicle which is a premium stated on your service record if that makes it any better. And it is extremely relevant, every example and/or scenario you have stated is purely pilot error. You’ve made a mistake, but you’re refusing to learn from the mistake, instead you want others to get worse, rather yourself getting better. Like I said, it is understandable of the conclusion you have came to since you’re a premium player. You have not played the A10C, nor any of the A10 for that matter… nor any other vehicles than the Mirage F1C honestly. I’ve played every nation, with the A10 Late being my top service record vehicle. I have played it, and I have played against it countless of times, hence why I’ve came to the conclusion of my statements. You get killed due to pilot error and you come complaining, stating that it should be moved up to 12.0…? I’m asking to balance out the aircraft’s playerbase whereas you, again, like I’ve stated in previous replies, are trying to kill the A10C’s playerbase, due to your incompetence of doing a technique that has been tested, and have worked perfectly. Not to mention this wasn’t even the topic nor purpose of this post. Stating what you’ve shown as “skill issue” is entirely appropriate at this stage.