Subsonics getting EC maps?

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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Sideways, I’ve just reviewed this entire message board and honestly all the evidence just points to you being unable to use tactics which are tried, tested and highly effective against the A10.
I find it absolutely absurd that you claim that Raze, who has trying to have a constructive discussion at any point insulted you.
If anything, you have totally misconstrued and derailed the entire point of the initial post in the first place. This was never a discussion of changing the A10’s BR, it was highlighting that All subsonic, including the A10 and Su25, should not have to see EC matches where they are forced to spawn on the air field with every other supersonic fighter.
Just because you have a personal gripe over some slight that the A10C has against you shouldn’t totally disrupt a conversation.

With the heavy reduction in base respawn speed and proliferation of premium players using bombs rather then using their aircraft for their intended role has made grinding a strike aircraft a hellscape as is. Having on top of that the possibility of playing EC matches only compounds the problem where many subsonics have to fly in a straight line for 10 minutes to even get to any AI targets, let alone bases, and that’s if they don’t get intercepted by an opportunistic pilot prior to that. Given this along with the many of these strike aircraft, especially the A10 and Su25, were specifically designed to operate from forward airfields or dirt strips close to the front line it would make logical sense that they would either not have to see such large maps like those in EC or have a spawn which would enable them to actually carry out their role rather then solely be an RP piñata for a fighter.

As a side comment on the A10 discussion: While I do agree that the balance of the A10C is off, it is not driven by the aircraft itself, rather the compression of BR’s around it. This is a consistent issue throughout the game, a clear example in GRB being the cold war heavy’s, which dominate in the down tier but are more often then not, cannon fodder in an up tier. Rather then complain about the A10 being to strong, maybe complain about how compressed the 10.0 to 12.0 battle rating is. There is no world were the A10 would be remotely playable against 12.0, it is cannon fodder already in these matches. Reducing the focus of balancing a vehicle purely to the capability of its weapon systems will never lead to a well balanced game.

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I wouldn’t say the AIM-9M is good at any BR. The amount of complaints I’ve heard and times where the AIM-9M get deflected from a flare or two is a lot even if it’s the best in the game, it’s just not reliable. It sounds like you may need a bit more experience using the AIM-9M to see this, but having seeing A-10Cs, they haven’t really been a problem so far since they arrive pretty late.

As for the diagram, it looks like you dove down a bit too hard making you an easy target enough for even an AIM-9B to hit, having that controlled speed, you could have more time to hit that A-10 or turn a different direction so the A-10 can’t get you. Flying passed an A-10 with engines red hot explains the hit. 1 km with that speed should be enough for the AIM-9M to hit, but if you did flare or flew more to the side, you could of made it a lot harder for that A-10, but this is going by the diagram, unless you have a video to show otherwise, it does show a pilot error.

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The only 10.3s I can think of that would have any real trouble against A-10C is A-10A and Su-25

Regular basis? I’ve nearly spaded A-10A Late. I could count how many flareless planes I’ve encountered on one hand, and they were all dumb F-1 players who didn’t needa get close in the first place.

Doesn’t matter what tag a plane has in Warthunder. The A-36 is a ground attack plane but everyone uses it as a fighter.

So what? it’s still an IR missile facing radar missiles on a crappy airframe.

That’s just your own skill issue being unable to aim

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Putting this here since his replies aren’t working

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And let an A-10 run rampant on my AI targets or let the match time run out? That’s not how the game is played.

Again, extend, and come back around from above or anywhere behind the A10. If you boom and zoom them, there is abolutely nothing they can do. I don’t understand how you’re having trouble with this, I can only say it’s due to pilot error which is basically a nicer version of “skill issue”.

Name a BR where AIM-9Ms aren’t good.

It’s not the BR, its how it’s fired, and which aircraft it’s fired from. Just because it’s a 9L with IRCCM and smokeless rocket motor doesn’t mean anything, if you fired it at someone going mach 1.2 while you’re at 600kph yourself, the enemy aircraft will outrun the missile. Again, you’re looking into 1 dominating factor, and ignoring the rest. That is not how balancing works. For example, the F-104A. Carries two 9B’s only. There’s vehicles that carries four 9B’s in 8.3, does this mean the F-104A should go down in BR? No it does not. It’s horrible missile loadout is compensated by its incredible speed, and vulcan cannon. Same principle for the A-10C, horrible speed, does that mean it should go down in BR? No it shouldn’t. Its horrible speed is compensated by the 9Ms and its GAU cannon.

Prove it. With sensor view so I can see if he fired at a flare rather than you.

I don’t have to prove anything.

Screaming skill issue and calling me a spam is an insult and not remotely relevant.

I could instead say pilot error and only playing 1 vehicle which is a premium stated on your service record if that makes it any better. And it is extremely relevant, every example and/or scenario you have stated is purely pilot error. You’ve made a mistake, but you’re refusing to learn from the mistake, instead you want others to get worse, rather yourself getting better. Like I said, it is understandable of the conclusion you have came to since you’re a premium player. You have not played the A10C, nor any of the A10 for that matter… nor any other vehicles than the Mirage F1C honestly. I’ve played every nation, with the A10 Late being my top service record vehicle. I have played it, and I have played against it countless of times, hence why I’ve came to the conclusion of my statements. You get killed due to pilot error and you come complaining, stating that it should be moved up to 12.0…? I’m asking to balance out the aircraft’s playerbase whereas you, again, like I’ve stated in previous replies, are trying to kill the A10C’s playerbase, due to your incompetence of doing a technique that has been tested, and have worked perfectly. Not to mention this wasn’t even the topic nor purpose of this post. Stating what you’ve shown as “skill issue” is entirely appropriate at this stage.

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F-1, F-104J, F-104G(CN), F-4C, F-105D, Su-17M2, actually, about everything. The AIM-9M literally DEFINES a portion of the meta at 10.3, where all of the aircraft are using missiles comparable to AIM-9E or AIM-9J. Half of these aircraft have no CMs, and rockets cannot defeat AIM-9Ms. The rest have no business being almost invalidated by IRCCM death beams creeping ever lower in BR.

It’s an IRCCM missile facing IR missiles that are significantly less potent. Given you have 400 some CMs, radar missiles are a non-issue.

An AIM-9M is not an AIM-9E. Sorry!

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An AIM-9M is not an AIM-9E. Sorry!

I don’t understand how this correlates to anything I’ve stated.

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Didn’t Raze state multiple times how 9Ms fired off A10s have incredibly low velocity and could very easily be outran by after burning jets? This just throws IRCCM out of the question.

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wow. struggling against an A-10 in supersonics is just pathetic.

XD that’s just a straight up lie. It’s an Am-9 on a crappy subsonic airframe facing supersonics.

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How to kill subsonic 101
This is just an example, of an effective technique being used.

Please also note the following:
Enemy target in the video is smaller than an A-10
Enemy target is quicker than an A-10
Enemy target has spatial awareness - Actually maneuvered
Cannons used are DEFA’s - Considered extremely low in velocity; basically what your F1C has.

Overall, all evidence just points to you being unable to use an effective tactic. If you missed your shot, it’s not your opponent nor their aircraft to blame, rather yourself. You can’t just constantly miss your shots and come in complaining the vehicle(s) you face are too overpowered. They’re not, you just haven’t gotten a grip of the game yet.

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  1. Those were actually really good shots nice job

  2. The Mirage F1C is more than capable of dealing with A-10s, it’s the flareless planes that I am concerned about.

  3. I do not consistently miss my shots, the example I gave was a very bad one that I created in the 5 minutes in between classes

I have only ever said it is the A-10C, who has MAWS, an obscene amount of CMs, and extremely good missiles that is OP. The only drawback it has is it is slow. I recognize that is a pretty large drawback, but that’s why it should be 12.0. The harrier with the same number of AIM-9Ms and significantly less survivability features is 12.3 because of its speed.

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No it should not be 12.0, it’s cruise speed barely even reaches mach 0.5 while the Harrier could reach up to mach 0.92 during cruise, not to mention its 700 countermeasures. That’s almost 600kph difference. The 9M’s initial launch velocity being mach 0.9 is considered significantly better than the A10’s. Your statements aren’t as valid mate, you haven’t experienced how it is to play the A-10C, let alone any A-10’s. At best, you can only imagine.

This also further proves why people complain about the A10’s, doing a stupid move like this and expecting it to work, then continues to blame the opponents’s vehicle.

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That proves my point well, the A-10C cannot be killed at its BR if the pilot is sufficiently skilled enough. You have a very advanced RWR so they can’t hit you with radar missiles. The MAWS instantly sends all IR missiles into your flares. The A-10Cs surprisingly good flight performance makes it so you cannot dogfight so there is only 1 possible way to kill it, which is boom and zoom. A competent A-10C pilot can avoid the opponents shots when they are booming and zooming. Those pilots certainly did not know that which is why they were so easy to kill.

The only drawback of the airframe is that it is slow, which isn’t even that much of a drawback seeing as you were able to make it to the battlefield and score multiple kills. If the A-10C had no MAWS and was slow it might be more balanced, it simply just isn’t right now.

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I don’t think it proves that the A-10C cannot be killed, that F-4 could kill that A-10 easily, but due to how low the aircraft is, it messes with the radar. If you have used radar, it is possible for even a prop plane to mess up a radar missile.

You don’t need to boom and zoom, since you are dealing with missiles at this BR. It is all about turn fighting and hitting the fire button at the right moment. Boom and zoom will allow radar missiles to have a better lock as there is less interference.

They can flank the A-10, but flying in front of an A-10 is suicide as the video shows, if you watch the video, it shows the things people do wrong, doesn’t show how well the IR missile does, it just shows mistakes people do that makes them work.
I did have a battle with not an A-10C but an earlier A-10 and the AIM-9Ls don’t hit sometimes as I’ve seen people outrun them, some even come behind and make it hard to dogfight. So I am with Raze on this as what he said is factual and unbiased.

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I know what multipathing is, but the A-10C has an extremely advanced RWR which makes it SIGNIFIGANTLY easier to dodge radar missiles than any other planes at its BR. On top of that it has an absurd amount of chaff and due to its low speed it has a huge notch angle.

You are aware that the A-10C has MAWS right? The second it detects a missile it will be flared. The only way to kill a competent player is with guns.

The MAWS goes off, it is flared. This is known because it does not hit him.

The A-10C has 4 AIM-9Ms, that’s a huge improvement to AIM-9Ls.

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A-10C cannot be killed at its BR if the pilot is sufficiently skilled enough
A competent A-10C pilot can avoid the opponents shots when they are booming and zooming
Those pilots certainly did not know that which is why they were so easy to kill.

This goes for almost every vehicle. You’re also proving my point, if the aircraft is totally based on skill, then the aircraft itself is completely well balanced.

You have a very advanced RWR so they can’t hit you with radar missiles

You shouldn’t need to kill an A10 using radar missiles…? or any missiles? I’ve always killed A10s with guns, not once have I ever had an issue.

The MAWS instantly sends all IR missiles into your flares

Most pilots have this turned off due to the waste of countermeasures, despite having 480.

The only drawback of the airframe is that it is slow, which isn’t even that much of a drawback seeing as you were able to make it to the battlefield and score multiple kills.

We did NOT make it to the battlefield, if you paid attention to the video, you would have noticed we were behind our OWN bombing bases. The enemy aircrafts CAME to us. That is the ONLY potential way for us to get into a fight.

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I wouldn’t say it’s easier to dodge missiles as it needs enough speed and energy to turn which won’t be quick enough to distance itself from chaff, not to mention how quickly it can kill off energy, this only works if the missile is fired far enough for the pilot to react, though even if the pilot notches and successfully evaded the missile, the aircraft would already be in gun range.

MAWS is funny, they are really exploitable especially in ground. Fires missiles that aren’t directed to you so you waste countermeasures.

MAWS goes off, until the A-10 is defenceless.

Still can be deflected, the A-10 isn’t the only one with countermeasures.

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You clearly have no understanding with how the MAW works.
The MAW has around a 1 to a 1.5 second delay from the missile launch to the player actually getting a visual warning. The MAW also has giant dead zones where no launch is detected, any missile from a AOA above or bellow the A10 by about 20 degrees or more is not detected. So unless the player is actively watching, the MAW wont have sufficient time to react. If you look closely at Raze Replay, you’ll actually see his MAW Slaving is disabled. You will also see that he wasn’t even past the friendly bases, meaning that the enemy team flew to him, not the other way around.

9Ms versus 9Ls only have two improvements: IRCCM and a smokeless motor. Their is no variation in speed or range or turning capability. So the Claim of being a “Huge Improvement” is total BS. IRCCM just makes it so you cant single flare it, but it is very simple to dodge due to how Seeker Shutoff IRCCM works. When flares are detected within the seeker gimbal, the missile stops tracking for a second or two and fly’s on IOG, all you simply need to-do is flare and turn away. If you allowed it to be launched within 1km then that’s just your own incompetence. On the A10 the 9m has to use a solid couple seconds of its booster to get up to a speed that it can even manoeuvre, let alone accelerate so you have plenty of time to deploy flares and get out from ahead of the seeker.

Sorry but all your recent post prove is that you have zero actual experience with Shutoff IRCCM, MAWS or how to deal with subsonic aircraft in general. Given you seem to have no qualms with throwing money at the game, go buy yourself the A10A premium and play it a bit before trying to contribute to this discussion cause your arguments your are making are factually wrong and prove a lack of experience