Submarines - WT Discussion

Do you have link to the datamine?

Not a datamine yet, this time it 's a leak from Oliviia
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Excited to see how this is going to work ! Ofcourse, we know a few things already:

WT Mobile already has a Type VII submarine, so the one being introduced here will likely be in similar configuration, if not the same

In addition to already knowing when WT 's anniversary is, they’ve already added some of the decals for it( https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/17cdki5/datamine_2290106_2290111/ ). So it shouldn’t be long before we start seeing these in the files !
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Spoiler

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That event will be interesting wonder if we will see sonar mechanics on the fletcher. Either way if this come to play it is pretty much a direct test of subs.

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Submarines without sonar mechanics on all/most relevant ships will be a clusterF.

@Shadow_CZ alright, now we’re starting to get datamines:

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( Reddit - Dive into anything )

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( Reddit - Dive into anything )

https://github.com/gszabi99/War-Thunder-Datamine/blob/6c7abd2d148e829150e52121a6edceb406c6b988/gui.vromfs.bin_u/scripts/controls/shortcutslist/shortcutsgroupsubmarine.nut#L77

One thing I don’t think we’re going to learn much abt from this is how they might plan to balance subs v. surface - as described this event is going to have an asymmetric format. So the issues it may have might not have analogues to normal NF battles if they featured submarines, and the solutions applied to counter them in the event could be the same way.

Despite that, we’re sure to learn a great deal abt the underlying mechanical workings of WW2 submarines and counter-sub systems intended for WT - more than we heard from the voicelines last year hopefully !

The fuel leak parameters are also interesting, in all honesty I think that it could be great test for subs because the DD vs Subs gameplay holds most potential and has least balance issues.
The problem with subs is that bigger ships have basically no counter play and because the DD is very poor target to the torps.

If I were to guess the event will be some kind of convoy escort and wolfpack attack. Which is something which should be viable as sub gameplay.

Some will have limited anti-submarine capacity, but this is also problem. Most nations capital ships and cruisers have to purely rely on Mk 1 eyeball with hydroplane to find and attack submarines

That is what I was saying the whole time, the subs are great idea but the game mode needs to be adjusted for their implementation. The current gameplay, map designs isn’t suitable for them.

I would love to see submarines if we get proper convoy action but Gaijin seems to be really reluctant to do that apart from EC which has it’s own problems.

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The voicelines, for re-review:


I’m wondering if we’ll see some changes to the modelling of depth charge damage output soon, the damage radius of those is currently not changed by the timer setting.


That 's true, might be for some additional visual detection indications for a submerged submarine via oil slicks ? Though it could also just be a new progressive damage effect to penetrated fuel tanks w/ no relation to subs.

It does seem likely that will be the case, but if it is we’re really not going to learn much abt surface/submarine balancing - the non-counterable steamroll feeling when one team gains the upper hand playing their objective is integral to asymmetric-style mission types, even though it 's divorced from the isolated ability of one player to be able to defeat an opponent. Hopefully us player-testers will understand that.

Personally, I’m worried abt expectation that submarines would be useful performing anti-convoy tasks in WT battles, their low speed and reliance on torpedo weaponry seems like it would leave them at a permanent disadvantage trying to complete it before their surface-ship teammates had a shot at it.
Convoy defense seems more doable, though - in that role the opponent approaches rather than having to be approached, which might mitigate the disadvantages subs have somewhat.

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IMO this event/test will have one team of DDs and one team of subs. So the firepower disadvantage won’t be present here.

But in case of the gameplay in normal PvP I imagine that the submarines would have spawn relatively close to the enemy convoy and especially in front of it. And AI convoy is extremely easy target for submarines since it has very predictable path so firing torp into its path should be effective.

Submarines are gonna be a clusterF no matter what lol. Like I said, people can look at WoWs. Everything that people say here to justify subs, they said there too. And it didn’t work.

Personally I hope they never add submarines. Outside of maybe multiplayer PVE, submarines will be actual hell to fight against, given that most ships (excluding a few destroyers) do not carry anti-sub equipment and anti-sub aircraft aren’t really a thing in the game either. As is, and likely will continue to be, submarines would have no counters and would be extremely frustrating to play against. Maybe if they made a Sub v Sub mode like that one April Fools event, that might be okay. But in naval battles as is, including EC, submarines would likely be a horrible addition. There is no “remaking of maps and modes” that can accommodate submarines in a big naval battle with other combatants that cannot even fight against it. Submarines are literally just a horrible idea to add in any capacity outside of PVE.

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Subs? terrible idea. For both people playing subs and fighting subs
Look at the German Type VIIC sub for an example. Max speed underwater… 8 knots, or 15kmh. Imagine trying to get across a map with that speed. The torps are going to be nigh useless against destroyers and PTs unless you get real close, and all the big ships are on the huge 20km maps. And how many torps do you have? Type VII as my example again, you have 4 frontal/1 rear tube and 14 total torps… and they’re all in fixed mounts, making them more useless than the rotating side mounts on many cruisers and early battleships. Seems horrendous to play, unless they spawn subs on top of the enemy spawn. Or they could add a function akin to the hull-aim on the STRV103 if they really wanted to I suppose.
Fighting subs? Basically everything not a subhunter or destroyer will be able to do nothing to subs. Depth charges are almost exclusive to destroyers too, as per their irl duties, and considering how fragile destroyers are to anything bigger than a peashooter it will be difficult to deal with a sub, at all.

What I’m trying to say is, itll be terrible no matter how you implement it, so while I get that subs are cool in theory, they should NOT be implemented into the standard game. They’d suck to play if implemented accurately, and they’d suck to fight if they’re given artificial arcade-type buffs

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Sub’s in WoWS were the last decision made by Wargaming, wich convinced me to deinstall their game.

The actual disbalanced game was screwed up even further and those subs rendered the game even more annoying and imo not worth my time to workaround them.

Despite the fact that Wargaming did balance the team dispositions for each side, wich just wont happen in Warthunder.

But, if Gaijin decides to actually implement them, I’m doing my part and didn’t even think about to start this game mode at all.

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Subs with missiles would be pretty cool.

The TMA-1 mine: a torpedo-tube launched weapon used by WW2 Uboats w/ the 533mm torpedo tube, similar in concept to the Type M Mk.2 I’ve talked abt previously

Very interesting that it 's appeared in the files today !

In the case of submarines with high performance torpedoes, like Japanese submarines, I think they can be integrated into the game. They can fire torpedoes with a range of 9km or 12km, so if they move forward a bit they can join the fight. I also believe that the submarine’s play style will be the same as the Japanese DD’s play style, which is partying torpedoes in a safe area until the end of the game. However, they will not be able to shed as many torpedoes as the Shimakaze, so they will not have to worry about breaking the game balance.

First of all, Gaijin THANK YOU, for giving us naval players more to do.
The mode isn’t perfect yet, but I love it, when you add some way to sneak past people would be amazing, I had already some nice moments in three matches.

by the way, you could implement the way of calculating from the submarines to all (big) ships, it would make throwing torpedos a bit harder than it is at the moment.

Guys don’t go ballistic, let them improve the mode and we need submarines, especially with all the big battleships camping in the spawn and sniping the cruisers and destroyers.

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I must say that submarines have proven to be very viable vessels in WT. They can be quite a threat even to destroyers if they are played correctly. I think submarines would liven up standard naval battles as well.

Hi, if you have specific feedback for the ongoing event the devs are watching this thread for feedback: ( https://forum.warthunder.com/t/battle-of-the-atlantic-ships-against-submarines )

This one 's just a WT community discussion abt subs, sorry !

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