Su-39 Current BR is unbearable ( 11.7 )

[Kievskiy_Minipig]

@Major Claymore

even at near ground altitude engagements.

No thanks to multipath / notch

@Major Claymore

Able to be intercepted to its size

Speed is what actually matters, kh29t has 2 times more speed than agm65.

@Major Claymore

But IT NEEDS CONTINUOUS ILLUMINATION to the enemy vehicle\nearby location, Which the CARRIER AIRCRAFT ( su-39 ) needs to be visible all the way until missile impact. WHICH IS extremely dangerous in UPTIER.

You can vikhr joust any natp saclos sam in game. And due to the fact you are coming front aspect and probably in mp alt, arh/ir missiles will be easy to deal with.
Kh25ml can be replaced with kh25mpu, all you need is 16 vikhrs.

@Major Claymore

YOU only get 2 of it,

Harrier only gets 2 worse aim9l at same br. Or 4 for humble price - losing 2 air to ground pylons.

@Major Claymore

for the Anti radiation missiles they are good, but not perfect:

And harrier gets up to 4 agm122 on aim9l pylons which cant even lock top tier aa (and in downtiers it often “hits” due to poor warhead). Kh31p/kh25mpu is not just good, its godsend compared to analog on same br.

@Major Claymore

they have ARH MISSILES and FACES planes with AAM ARH Missiles at this BR, Its very Awkward position.

Thats issue of grb in general, not su39. Air is extremely compressed.

@Major Claymore

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: The Corb YTer did NOT face IRIST OR SPAA`s WITH ARH OR IR ADVANCED IRCCM MISSILES IN THE VID, HE ONLY FACED ADATS WHICH IS OK AND OTHER EASILY DODGEABLE SPAAS NOT THE MODERN NEXT GENERATION ONES.

Here, I uptiered su25t, which is worse su39 because no kh31p and kh25mpu, to 12.7 on purpose. So its always uptier essentially. Map with cover and map with gm_flatgrass.

- YouTube

Even spooky scary advanced ir missile got flared not once but twice.

[Kievskiy_Minipig]

Probably because GMTI means ground moving targets identification?

[Knuckles7080-live]

@UniqueScorpions-live

But this platform is far better.
Also, doesn’t this one get Pythons?

Yeah ig if you compre it to the su39 and it does have pythons but my main point was that even aircraft with 2 fox2 an 2 modern fox 3 the min br is 13.0

@UniqueScorpions-live

Aim-54s can still score kills, but usually its rate is like 1:2 since most sim players are good at the game and know how to dodge them / evade them.

So the same as in arb

@UniqueScorpions-live

because it can guide its Aim-7Ms no problem.
It’s a good platform because it’s fast, and works well at higher alts.

😬 it fast but it doesn’t have good acceleration it’s why I like to compare it the f16 ADF FM although the f16 ADF has a better advantage due to agility and thrust to weight ratio and at 30,000 ft the aircraft turns like a brick so dogfights at those altitude isn’t smart as for the dogfighting capability it can definitely hang on and give a competition with the right pilot and altitude. For the aim7m is more reliable than aim54 but it’s still meh even after the buff

@UniqueScorpions-live

F-14D can carry 8~

2-6 fox2/3 2-4 fox 1(6 radar missiles 2 ir missiles) as for its br in sim I can’t say anything about its as I don’t play it

[ScimitarsCurse]

@Major Claymore

The av8b na is also suitable for such BR, since you can use the “Orbital Strike method” By hovering over the enemy spawn which will put the plane out of the radar vertical detection radius.

Youre not being serious calling a harrier better than a frogfoot C are you? Because it has an incredibly niche way to exploit idiotic SPAA players.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

Why do you think the F-5 is so bad?
Turn pretty good.
Has good acceleration.

It’s pretty much better in all ways that matter over a Su-39, maybe bar the radar.
I don’t know enough about that particular F-5 offhand.

[MiGoon_Fox-3]

@UniqueScorpions-live

Why do you think the F-5 is so bad?

Outdated airframe

@UniqueScorpions-live

Turn pretty good.
Has good acceleration.

Slow, it’s a fuck’n F-5 at 13.0

You only have two Fox-3s, which are derbies that suck
and then 9Ms
with 45 countermeasures
HMS is a nice gimmick ig

@UniqueScorpions-live

It’s pretty much better in all ways that matter over a Su-39

Crazy, dedicated strike vs a fighter

Now let’s put them into grb for a sec

[願我的祖先保佑我免受BVVD之害]

@Major Claymore

TGP CANT track Static Targets Like SPAA or tanks, ONLY moving Targets which IS not practical.

i assume you mean TWS GMTI (which i dont think the underfuselage radar even has? idk maybe it does) but TGP most definitely can track moving and stationary targets.

@Major Claymore

Vihkrs Are useless if u cant get to the battlefield without dying.

Idk how youre having issues getting to the battlefield outside of really bad and annoying maps like tunisia or some other flat maps where spaas can see to the spawn, but in general the problem with vikhrs is that once people know about you and you only have SAL missiles requiring direct LOS it because way more annoying to use. Even then they are still incredible and they are coupled with brimstones one of the best anti helicopter tools ingame for planes.

@Major Claymore

I just said the Plane have such problems and will be a good thing to provide it with a thing that all the other vehicle DO have it in its BR RANGE.

Kh25MPUs within 10-6km range should be more than capable of dealing with any and all SPAAs youd run into. Not only do they not sacrifice your 29T slot but they are wide band. That alone is such a massive improvement over the already busted Su25T at 11.3 and im not even talking about the better 29Ts the Su39 gets where you can pointlock from further away which is honestly a pretty solid upgrade as the missile is very fast.
Compared to other 11.7s the Su39 is genuinely really good.

As for the BR, you can blame gaijin for making matchmaker be so abysmal by not decompressing top tier.

[HondaCivici]

It was extremely powerful for 11.3 and I say this as a Su39 enjoyer in grb

All the points you made can be said about the any 11.3-12.0 in a straight up tier so the solution doesn’t really make sense because they can be applied to those said planes.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

To be fair, some times ground players just let CAS destroy their whole team since nobody wants to spawn spaa

[HondaCivici]

Because many of the spaa at that BR cannot compete against a Su39. Why would anyone bring in a roland or a stinger platform when both can easily be countered. Even at 11.7, it’s extremely easy to counter spaa at that BR.

The only spaa I have trouble defeating are the advanced IR and ARH slingers, everything else is a cake walk.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

Perhaps now with the new HARM missiles yeah.

Still it’s not like they can’t be shot down.
Even on controller I can use the radar to intercept missiles by locking them typically

[HondaCivici]

@UniqueScorpions-live

Perhaps now with the new HARM missiles yeah.

This was before that. There’s no way to measure but I’m’ pretty sure more than 90% of my stats come from pre-harm. Even when I’m at 11.7 up tiers, I can reliably take out ADATS and Vt1 slingers.

@UniqueScorpions-live

Still it’s not like they can’t be shot down.

True, but any competent player can defeat these systems. Again, why would anyone willingly bring in a spaa that is essentially anemic to defeat a 11.3 CAS

@UniqueScorpions-live

Even on controller I can use the radar to intercept missiles by locking them typically

You only get two missiles that can’t take an aircraft with more than a single brain cell. If you use one, you get one left before you have to wait 5s to re-arm. It’s a loosing battle considering the Su39’s greatest strength is medium to short engagements (popup attacks) which very little spaa can react quickly enough.

This is excluding that IR platforms are useless against it.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

@HondaCivici

True, but any competent player can defeat these systems. Again, why would anyone willingly bring in a spaa that is essentially anemic to defeat a 11.3 CAS

I legitimately stopped flying my Su-39 in ground because I kept getting the giga chads who would shoot down my munitions :(

Even trying to fire them at all different angles it was like I was cursed or something lol.

[Major_Claymore]

@ScimitarsCurse

Youre not being serious calling a harrier better than a frogfoot C are you? Because it has an incredibly niche way to exploit idiotic SPAA players.

I did not say that, I simply said it also Suitable for ground attack missions, Its definitely not equal to the Su-25 frogfoot all variants in terms of Competitive and technological advanced weaponries.
What i noted that it still have a chance.

@Kievskiy_Minipig

Probably because GMTI means ground moving targets identification?

Yes exactly that what it means!
There is a more advanced version of the kopyo Radar targeting pod Named ( Kinzhal MMw radar Pod ) developed by the russians, there was test prototypes of it but it never fulfilled the wanted requirements ( it was built and tested ), The Major difference between Kinzhal and the Kopyo is that Kopyo pod Targets ground moving Object using the Movement differentials and clearing the static Ground clutter or similar, While the Kinzhal Uses the MMw radar detection to well detect ground targets even if they static. so yeah you on point.

@Kievskiy_Minipig

No thanks to multipath / notch

Yes Of course i also answered that in details before if you want to check my previous answer here:

@Major Claymore

Coming from above At mach Kaput against a subsonic aircraft at 150 Meter altitude aint going to Multipath a thing since multipath work below 60 Meter altitude distance, Considering if you fighting in a mountain like terrain environment which it will be in a more disadvantage against that, And even at Flat terrain, you will get spammed until you eventually go kaput, Including you cant get kill effectively in both ways since u will have to up eventually to gain some altitude for a strike.

This answer and the other one here:

@Major Claymore

To clarify even further, Lets say two situation WHEN each one of them you did:

1. You Are at multi path radar alt ( 60 m ), and a missile is going for YOU, AND you WONT wiggle your plane vertically ( FROM UP TO DOWN AT CERTAIN ANGLE NOT SHAPR ANGLE ), And the missile is Coming from ABOVE ( Behind You Typical Perfect situation for the example ), The missile Will hit you In the back BECAUSE it predicted that the MOVEMENT DIRECTION ( OF YOUR PLANE ) is Forward without moving AND WITHOUT THE VIRTUAL MOVEMENT ARROW ENTERING THE GROUNG ) It CALCULATED That the PN Direction IS STATIC SINCE YOU have No movements Vertically to Disrupt the Movement of the Missile Direction In a Negative Altitude and make the missile have an early Detonation due to it impacting the ground.

THE SECOND SITUATION: 2. IS opposite of the first, WHERE YOU WIGGLE which will make the Direction Arrow of movement In the missile guidance unit ( Logic ) Disrupt and make it calculate that the impact point will BE IN THE GROUND.

@Kievskiy_Minipig

Speed is what actually matters, kh29t has 2 times more speed than agm65.

Speed also plays a major factor in fulfilling the Missile interception rule for both the attacker and the defender, But what actually matters not only speed, But also the launch platform and its speed, laucnh angle, location between terrain or geographical location, the Kh-25MPU do have alot of speed, But that wont matter, since the Typical situation that you will launch it from 10 to 15km as perfect example out of SPAA detection Range FOR YOUR plane not the missile, after that they will STILL see your missile on the radar detected flying objects manual screen, Which will they also be able to intercept it.

@Kievskiy_Minipig

You can vikhr joust any natp saclos sam in game. And due to the fact you are coming front aspect and probably in mp alt, arh/ir missiles will be easy to deal with.

I agree with you partially, Vihkrs are indeed suitable for targeting Ground targets when the ground aircraft is nearby ground, BUT they are supersonic missiles, With time delay for the guidance unit, Launching it from afar nearby ground while maintaining direct observation illumination for the vihkr missiles is dangerous since they will also launch counter attack against the vihkr and YOU carrier aircrafts and since Players ( SPAA players ) used to see this mechanic so much they will swing their missile to dodge your Vihkr so it wont get intercept it and destroy the carrier aircraft ( Su-39 ), AND for the IRIST or Modern SPAA`s with ARH\IR advanced next generation missiles, even if u were nearby ground, they added a mechanic when even if u nearby the missile fragmentation dispersion radius you will get hit or even destroyed with or without Multipathing since it also plays an important rule.

@Kievskiy_Minipig

Harrier only gets 2 worse aim9l at same br. Or 4 for humble price - losing 2 air to ground pylons.

The the Su-39 also faces the AIM9M`s with IRCCM the same as R-73 Relatively in performance except G pull.

@Kievskiy_Minipig

Harrier only gets 2 worse aim9l at same br. Or 4 for humble price - losing 2 air to ground pylons.

Could you provide the Exact version and image of the harrier u talking about so i can provide detailed answer?

@Kievskiy_Minipig

Thats issue of grb in general, not su39. Air is extremely compressed.

True

@Kievskiy_Minipig

Here, I uptiered su25t, which is worse su39 because no kh31p and kh25mpu, to 12.7 on purpose. So its always uptier essentially. Map with cover and map with gm_flatgrass.

In the video this is a middleeasern map if i remember, you used terrain ( mountain ) as cover during every attack sequence, which provided u with cover, And Amazing gameplay Love it.

@Kievskiy_Minipig

Even spooky scary advanced ir missile got flared not once but twice.

Yes its not impossible to flare, but the main issue is for the Su-39 meeting them eventually every match which gets overwhelming but Not Exhausting with its capabilities and armaments.
In real life the Su-39 had an electronic counter messure pod against radar and POSSIBLY ( NOT sure ) IR missiles ( I am not talking about the IRCCM that it already has in the back of its tail section ), It carried those on the outer wing tips replaces the R60M`s with Electronic counter messure pods.

[Major_Claymore]

@kedrigern

i assume you mean TWS GMTI (which i dont think the underfuselage radar even has? idk maybe it does) but TGP most definitely can track moving and stationary targets.

Yes i meant that before, I got confused and i apologized for it before when our dear brothers were talking about the Shkval targeting pod specifically and not The Kopyo Radar ground scan radar, and yes its under the fuselage inside the kopyo radar.
And Yes you correct the TGP definitely can track Static and moving targets, I was Simply referring to the GMTI which i confused it with the TGP and i corrected it with a nice apology.

@kedrigern

Idk how youre having issues getting to the battlefield outside of really bad and annoying maps like tunisia or some other flat maps where spaas can see to the spawn, but in general the problem with vikhrs is that once people know about you and you only have SAL missiles requiring direct LOS it because way more annoying to use. Even then they are still incredible and they are coupled with brimstones one of the best anti helicopter tools ingame for planes.

Dont get me wrong, Is an amazing multi role strike aircraft, the problem is not with its armament its with the technologically advanced enemies that it faces, Vihkr and SAL missiles are absolutely suitable.

@kedrigern

Kh25MPUs within 10-6km range should be more than capable of dealing with any and all SPAAs youd run into.

It will if its not been intercepted by the radar scan Manual screen with couple clicks from the enemy which their accuracy level IS UNPARALLELED, mean they dont necessarily get nearby target to explode they achieve an incredible direct hit to even a mortar sized munitions, This is the same case with the Kh-25MPU, or even Kh-29TE.

@kedrigern

That alone is such a massive improvement over the already busted Su25T at 11.3 and im not even talking about the better 29Ts the Su39 gets where you can pointlock from further away which is honestly a pretty solid upgrade as the missile is very fast.
Compared to other 11.7s the Su39 is genuinely really good.

The Su-39 do future upgraded electronics suite and armaments improvements, The Kh-29TE you referring to have the same Reliable hard lock range of the Kh-29T, Except u can launch it from further away since it futures a more detailed pixel by pixel resolution, and u can launch it from 30 km but it wont track moving targets ONLY if the target u launched at was static and the missile went all the way to the 10km range will it will maintain the hard lock and gets to target it even if it moved which by that time it will lose its speed and make it easily observable my enemy radars targeting manual. and the Su-39 is absolutely good dont get me wrong but not at this 11.7 it was much more suitable at 11.3 for the reasons we discussed before and currently.

@kedrigern

As for the BR, you can blame gaijin for making matchmaker be so abysmal by not decompressing top tier.

I agree with you, good point.

[Kievskiy_Minipig]

@Major Claymore

multipath work below 60 Meter altitude distance,

Yes thats why you fly below 60m when you know missile is coming for you. And pair it with notch and chaff for even bigger evasion chance.

@Major Claymore

Considering if you fighting in a mountain like terrain environment which it will be in a more disadvantage against that

Then you should pick routes that let you maintain mp alt as well as notch just in case.

@Major Claymore

And even at Flat terrain, you will get spammed until you eventually go kaput,

Then its better to hide for bit and strike them when they forget or get distracted.

@Major Claymore

FROM UP TO DOWN AT CERTAIN ANGLE NOT SHAPR ANGLE ), And the missile is Coming from ABOVE ( Behind You Typical Perfect situation for the example ), The missile Will hit you In the back

That is why you should pair it with notch. You can greatly reduce chance of getting sandwiched. Or just move in zigzag pattern.

@Major Claymore

Speed also plays a major factor in fulfilling the Missile interception rule for both the attacker and the defender,

1.8 mach missile gives aa player much less time to react than 0.9 mach one. Forgot to mention tnt filler, kh29 has much more explosives.

@Major Claymore

But also the launch platform and its speed,

In case of harrier, platform speed is essentially same.

@Major Claymore

But that wont matter, since the Typical situation that you will launch it from 10 to 15km

That is too much, around 5 km is good distance for kh58u and kh25mpu. Kh31 needs bigger distance but it compensates that by being faster.

@Major Claymore

they will swing their missile to dodge your Vihkr so it wont get intercept it and destroy the carrier aircraft ( Su-39 )

You can follow their missile with vikhr or fire another 2 missiles so 1 gets destroyed and yo u continue your attack or barrel roll them because aa will be guiding missile manually to perform swing anyway. And on top of that you can fire vikhr from behind terrain lead it towards aa location and slowly emerge to get los on aa and give it minimum time to deal with you.

@Major Claymore

they added a mechanic when even if u nearby the missile fragmentation dispersion radius you will get hit or even destroyed

Thats if you fly too low and missile just splashes you.

@Major Claymore

The the Su-39 also faces the AIM9M`s with IRCCM the same as R-73 Relatively in performance except G pull.

Other 11.7 jets face it as well. While having worse missiles like aim9l. Again, not just su39 only thing.

@Major Claymore

Could you provide the Exact version and image of the harrier u talking about so i can provide detailed answer?

Av8b night attack, us premium.

@Major Claymore

In real life the Su-39 had an electronic counter messure pod

Many jets had ecm pods. Just like anti rad missiles, need to wait till devs implement that.

[Major_Claymore]

@Kievskiy_Minipig

Yes thats why you fly below 60m when you know missile is coming for you. And pair it with notch and chaff for even bigger evasion chance.

Yes exactly, Which would provide more chance to survive, which will also is related to the environment you in and the Loadout u have and the current attack speed and angle\direction of attack when you come to the enemy and after leaving it which also play important rule in calculating the chaff and dodging angle.

@Kievskiy_Minipig

Then you should pick routes that let you maintain mp alt as well as notch just in case.

Yes, Situational dependency.

@Kievskiy_Minipig

Then its better to hide for bit and strike them

War thunder playerbase is Experiences and the same tricks or tips we use against them they already tried it against US, mean the same thing can be said for them which they also experienced as us, Tricks or evasions may work in couple of tries, but it will wont provide reliable Attack OR escape plan after initiating the attack in sequence order, Which will be predictable, and comes with consequences.

@Kievskiy_Minipig

That is why you should pair it with notch. You can greatly reduce chance of getting sandwiched. Or just move in zigzag pattern.

Exactly You correct, It will definitely provides an improved survive chance against ARH missiles from Enemy advanced SPAAs OR enemy aerial fighters, BUT Not for the Advanced IR missiles such as the AIM9Ms or the More advanced AIM9X or its similar counterparts advanced IR Missiles integrated with IRCCM which has alot of Resistance against Flare or countermessure deployed during maneuvers or during initiating an attack after or before, depends.

@Kievskiy_Minipig

1.8 mach missile gives aa player much less time to react than 0.9 mach one. Forgot to mention tnt filler, kh29 has much more explosives.

Yes, at perfect situation you wont launch ur missile from like 2 or 4 km which the missile will maintain its full capable speed by that time, and near ground, BUT you will actually need to launch it from relatively above 500 or such altitude for the missile to properly loft and not to predetonate near by ground, And From Distance of 10 or 15Km as the perfect engagement distance for the missile to abuse its long range and speed capability, and of course by that time it will lose some of it speed and make it trackable via radar tracking manual in the SPAA radar detection unit.

@Kievskiy_Minipig

In case of harrier, platform speed is essentially same.

Yeah its the same if it launched a laser guided bomb, Which is not the case with the Laser guided maverick or its IR version.

@Kievskiy_Minipig

That is too much, around 5 km is good distance for kh58u and kh25mpu. Kh31 needs bigger distance but it compensates that by being faster.

Yes its still practical, but you will put your self in a dangerous position nearby enemy airdefense in the case of Kh58 and Kh-25MPU, except the Kh31 since it will be launched from further away typically.

@Kievskiy_Minipig

You can follow their missile with vikhr or fire another 2 missiles so 1 gets destroyed and yo u continue your attack or barrel roll them because aa will be guiding missile manually to perform swing anyway. And on top of that you can fire vikhr from behind terrain lead it towards aa location and slowly emerge to get los on aa and give it minimum time to deal with you.

Yes i used such tactics, Swinging the missile before visual contact AND barrel roll when he try to swing it and fire another vihkr, that is the case with ADATS which is easy to fight against, but is not the case with such IRIST or advanced ARH missiles SPAA platforms.

@Kievskiy_Minipig

Thats if you fly too low and missile just splashes you.

Yes I did mention that. The radius of fragmentation dispersion due to the premature detonation of the missile from triggering its fuse early due to early contact from ground and not from the targeted aircraft .

@Kievskiy_Minipig

Other 11.7 jets face it as well. While having worse missiles like aim9l. Again, not just su39 only thing.

Yes correct, Its the BR Compression problem when we mentioned it before.

@Kievskiy_Minipig

Av8b night attack, us premium

It is amazing, i saw alot of videos people getting alot of tanks with.

@Kievskiy_Minipig

Many jets had ecm pods. Just like anti rad missiles, need to wait till devs implement that.

Yes, I am looking forward for such ECM pods, which will may provide some defensive capability for such aircrafts and the Su-39.

[SandmanSix]

Looking at the SU 39 I don’t see any IR missiles. I’m assuming Gajin moved it up because it was over performing at 11.3.

Seeing it gets IRCM against spaa that can’t do anything already distance wise plus adding a capability to climb without worry of IR missiles I can see it at 11.7.

Uptiers your supposed to struggle and downtiers are supposed to feel easy. Most aircraft can’t do much in uptiers so it’s joining that club now.

Remove IRCM and sure 11.3 sounds better maybe even less.

[Major_Claymore]

@SandmanSix

Looking at the SU 39 I don’t see any IR missiles. I’m assuming Gajin moved it up because it was over performing at 11.3.

Huh? it does have R-73 and R-60M`s what you mean it does not have IR missiles? Also that is not a valid reason for it to get uptiered.

@SandmanSix

Seeing it gets IRCM against spaa that can’t do anything already

The IRCCM are directed backward in the tailsection which is only effective against early IR guided missiles such as AIM9L\G\H\J\B variants which are easily flarable anyway. AND the spaas the it faces got LOS missiles and IRCCM missiles which DO have resistance against such and the the su-39 IRCCM cant stop those Neither the ARH missiles in its BR range.

@SandmanSix

capability to climb without worry of IR missiles I can see it at 11.7.

that does not add up to what you saying, There is no context in that. I will be glad if u could clarify.

@SandmanSix

Remove IRCM and sure 11.3 sounds better maybe even less.

You cant remove a thing that it had it in real life, Ask or request gaijin for that, He wont do it anyway since that is a personal opinion and not a community agreed thing.

Did u even play this plane or look up at its armaments?

[SandmanSix]

@Major Claymore

Huh? it does have R-73 and R-60M`s what you mean it does not have IR missiles?

Sorry I mean Air to Ground IR missiles I don’t see any. They’re TV guided and you get beam riding.

@Major Claymore

The IRCCM are directed backward in the tailsection which is only effective against early IR guided missiles such as AIM9L\G\H\J\B variants which are easily flarable anyway

I mean from IR Spaa launchers. Similar to the next question IR SPAAs cannot do anything against it at BR 11.3 or lower if you keep a safe distance since most spaa do not have the range.

I’m assuming you’re talking about GRB BR from 11.3 to 11.7. So I’m basing it on what it’s going up against in terms of spaa.