4v4
Yeah as i said with the ef2000, for all nations it really should be a higher BR, the f4f ice my only gripe is it went to 13.3 while the tornado f3 late stayed at 13.3? Neither should go down in fairness but why one and not the other when they both perform really badly against the 15s 16s gripems etc etc
Map layouts, distances, effective ranges ? 4v4 sounds like its gonna descend into 1v1s in seperate areas.
And you didnt adress my other points, as in the gripen pre nerf or post nerf to a prototype air frames numbers ?
Realistically the gripen should beat an f16C, however even now an f16C will kerb stomp a gripen in every domain bar 1v1 dog fighting
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They are live streamed. With the F-15E, EFT and Rafale still being excluded from them. You pretty much only see Gripens and Mirage 2ks for the close range fighters (some rare J-10s) with mostly F-15s as support.
And timeframe? Just look at any of the tournaments ever since the Gripen released. Just look at the recent thundercup tournament.
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It’s Gaijin, God knows what goes through their heads. In my personal opinion, I would like to see a cut off around certain BRs so then some aviation isn’t being uptiered into certain oblivion (looking at you 9.3 with no flares constantly fighting A-10s with AIM 9Ls). But I digress.
Unfortunately this game has a bad tendency to “keep moving forward” and ignore all the rot that happens due to their ignorance. They come back, but it’s the equivalent to ignoring a basic infection until it’s time to amputate. They ignore unbalanced mechanics that came in with a major update, just to fix something that was complained about (exaggeration here) six years ago (the rocket bases nerf for example).
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So just went and had a watch
The tournaments are absolutely no metric to judge from it essentially just drops into extremely cut throat dog fighting.
Not many folks even attempt BVR, in which case i said the f16C isnt as good as gripen as its heavier.
However lets judge them by their actual in game competitiveness in the 16v16 lobbies.
The gripens ability to dogfight goes out the window completely as you cant just single out one person.
As well as this if we use tournaments to judge the planes and not their overall performance in the actual game the BRs woukd be all over the place
Edit: the 16A btw still out dogfights most of the roster and outwith the rafale and ef2000 i think its either the best or second best
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Those 9.3s used to be 10.0s before the damn a10 and su25 ruined the bracket, genuinely believe they should be moved up, it caused soo much compression now with the F saber seeing 7.0 again
checks insurmountable list of bug reports yeah that checks out man, ive played for anout 5 or 6 years, and its a shame, so many tanks and planes half baked and left.
With accepted bug reports.
The rocket running on bases was wild to me and im glad it got fixed but yeah how long was that actually a thing
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Just to add onto your debate about the F-16C.
You are right, that tournaments should not dictate BRs. Pubs and the doctrine behind it favour “Boom and Zoom” tactics. Best way to survive in Pubs is attempt to eliminate someone, if you cannot get him in the first shot, move up and out. Never focus on one guy. Top tier, mid tier, low tier, you gotta keep moving.
The other doctrine that is specifically only top tier is missile spamming (which requires no skill). The Grippen is not blessed with a loadout where you can spam umpteen AIM 120s and wipe out half the enemy team before anyone actually sees each other. The best thing the Grippen gets is the ability to turn real well, and has over six hundred flares to annoy people with. Granted it means absolutely nothing when you get slammed by five AIM 120s.
Tournaments is heavily based on the players and their skill. I’ve defeated top tiers in a biplane in guns only because I have a bit more skill. You cannot do that in Pubs because the doctrines are different. The Grippens excell in 1v1s because you’re focused on that one guy, you can use your manoeuvrability and flares to your advantage because it’s just you and him. Simple as.
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Yeah, I remember. However when I’ve made my case about how the A-10 should be 11.0 (since that’s where most jets start getting all-aspects like the MiG 21bis, Sea Harriers, etc.), I was met with scrutiny. “Buh buh the A-10 is too slow for 11.0!” “You just have a skill issue, just cue insane rambling that he parroted from YouTube” and a bunch more lame excuses. Instead of compressing a bunch of jets that don’t belong together (I guess it’s sorta historically accurate), we could’ve moved the problem up into a tier where it does belong. However, I can see why they cried: they enjoy seal clubbing.
Yeah, we still have the OTOMATIC at 11.7 for some odd reason, despite it being one of the worst SPAAs (I enjoy it for close ranges with proxies, but not everyone is “smart” enough to strafe run in the open. Most players prefer hurling AGMs from the neighbouring galaxy).
I was irritated when that happened, it was the only way I was spading my Swedish aircrafts. I had the Grippen at that point, but still. After that nerf, I just gave up on spading my mid tier jets. Kind of irritating since I wanted to actually completely spade everything, but I also don’t want to go back.
But I think those rocket bases were there since the beginning. You have to remember, when they implemented napalm and bases, napalm was considered the worst way to destroy a base. I believe it was rockets, bombs, and then napalm that was the best to worst way to destroy bases.
My point was mainly that it’s the good players that say that the Gripen dominated for quite a while, meanwhile the mid players say it didn’t dominate.
Just a funny observation.
How do you determine who’s “good” and who’s “mid” at the game? Their ability to make a YouTube video? Trust me, I’ve seen some of the YouTube videos that will hype up a mediocre plane, and will say you have a skill issue if you don’t worship it (looking at you, SAAB J35X)
I mean, stats is an easy answer. Usually covers 70-80% of the question of “Is this a good player?” question.
Wow, they can sling a missile real well. Obviously they must be a good player if they abuse the meta.
I value actual skills: 1v1 Tournament style. Anything else is just meta abusing strats.
Exactly, which is what the tournament players are usually good at, most of the tournament players I spoke to all said that the Gripen was dominant for quite a while.
It’s the same with the Strv 122 on the ground. So many players say it wasn’t dominating and that it’s balanced, but when you look them up you just find out that it’s a player issue.
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The Gripen is still a UFO and one of the best flight models in-game. F-18C is going to be rather equal to it too.
Genuinely the gripen, since it loses a lot of speed, plague of a delta, and its acceleration got nerfed ages ago, it struggles IMO at top tier in pubs, (not saying it should go down BTW not one of thoes gripen suffers folks). However, it really had its 15 minutes of fame and got shelved rapid style, the F16C will out do a gripen in practice as it carries more missiles, has a better radar as far as im aware and can retain its speed far, far better.
exactly my point, ive beaten F16A’s with the mirage 2000C S4 but thats purely due to the fact I had the drop on them and out played them with positioning, IF that was in a 1v1 situation, theres no chance ill beat the guy if he plays it for energy.
Genuinely man the A10s and su25s are already slow at their Brs, the evev 9.3s can hit mach one which neither of them can, so the slow argument is out the window.
They literally folded what, 4 Br brackets? 10.0 > 9.3/9.0> 8.3 > 8.0 > 7.0 roughly 4 brackets stomped down cause idiots buy them. Hell the su25 was introduced at 9.7 xD
Genuinely no idea why the otomatic is the BR it is, not even as if ti can be used as a TD as it gets a whole ass twelve darts xD I want it for the fun of it as i find it incredibly unique but it is a 10.3 spaa at best. (considering we have the oso at that BR).
You did not say that, at all.
You said the gripen still is dominant due to how it works in the tournaments against the F16C
Which i already pointed out, that pre nerf the gripen was a baby plane UFO as well as stomped literally everything. Post nerf it genuinely struggles with an F16C that is played right due to the acceleration, or lack thereof.
depends for air most my planes are positive (F8U2 was my first 10.0 back in the day so dunno if it is)
But id generally say now adays the gripens got the short end of the stick, like I said, in a 14.0 match id much rather use my F15A over the Gripen, it just lacks the damn power to keep up, excusing the Rdarters (i have british grip) the actual plane itself just feels so sluggish compared to the other jets around it.
Lets not even touch the EF2000 sitting at 14.0 while the ice and such are 13.0 xD
It isnt a UFO at all now adays man, it had good AoA but almost all deltas do, its acceleration leaves it sitting in a horrible position, unless someones stupid enough to try and turn fight you, which as we stated above many times, it still is good at.
That is it, it loses too much speed for how much it ragains to be effective in most situations outwith a 1v1.
The fact I can beat gripens with the 16AJ now adays, speaks volumes about how its FM is significantly under performing. (as per the countless bug reports that were mentioned further above it uses the wrong FM as well as has lower thrust than it should)
also when did you even last use the gripen? youve got 62 matches in it, ive nearly 300 in it, about 100 from when the damn ARH patch came. and have watched it change quite a lot since it released.
this is incorrect they have an incorrect fuel weight as such they need to run less fuel in game than SU-27 footage shows for the same maneuver see the SU-27 hud footage vs the recreation in-game, this is likely because the su-27 uses ‘over fuel’ and ‘standard fuel’ and their just calculating the weight wrong because of it since half fuel could mean 50% full or 25% full depending if its standard or over
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Right now Su-27s slightly out-perform F-15s, and Su-27SM even gives F-16C a loss streak.
I highly doubt Su-27s are Rafale equivalent as your posts are implying.
Leopards in general are dominant on ground. Personally not a fan of the Stridsvagn 122s because of the dreadful thermals (I personally use the CV120 over the Stridsvagn), but I digress. It’s all dependent on how you play. I would rather use the Hungarian Leopard 2A7, but that’s also because I can equip the Centauro 120 with it in a lineup.
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did some gamer ego check you in the su-27 or something? its FM is largely accurate to real life footage at airshows and hud footage its fuel weight is just incorrect which doesn’t exactly effect it until its low fuel already basically its full weight is correct but its empty weight isn’t