I just assumed “stats from matches” with all the players who bomb/go for GTs before, making it safe making them perform badly overall.
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Being easy prey for every fighter in its BR range. Additionally after being moved 7.3 everyone seemed to forget the Su-11 exists.
… Wait, people are losing dogfights against Wyverns?
It’s a brick that can’t turn.
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It’s a brick that if it does turn it becomes exponentially easier to kill. I love using the Wyvern for boom and zoom, but goodness if you turn in it you signed your own death warrant.
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Imho the OP wrote energy fights, imho a difference.
On top of that - every few hundred matches you meet pilots in Air RB which are using the Wyverns with a joystick - way less energy losses compared to the average mouse aim user results in way better (actually surprising) agility.
Check old wt forum - you find “confessions” of Wyvern users confirming that…
https://old-forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/543513-what-is-wyvern-doing-at-40/&do=findComment&comment=9488458
But most of their users are not aware of this and have no clue about ACM and energy management, so from a general perspective you are right.
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I guess I know what to buy if I decide to switch tech trees.
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The Wyvern if flown properly can be devastating, but you can’t say that you have difficulty killing it with any fighter, because the Wyvern will lose all dogfights against them.
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With regards to AirRB - not true as not relevant, as the key for a proper usage is exactly to avoid any slow combat and to use superior speed in the first place. You won’t start a dogfight / turnfight with an A6M whilst flying a P-47, but the P-47 can dictate the fight due to its way superior speed.
So an experienced pilot can remain untouchable by disengaging at will - whilst the performance advantage of speed and energy retention in a straight line allow him to pick his fights.
It became a lot easier to kill them since October 2023 when they removed aaa on the forward airfields, but the problems with them early game are still there.
I linked above a quote from 2022 - i had to break off / pull my airbrake as i attacked a Wyvern at 9.800 meters - as he managed to outdive me, and my rip speed is between 870-880 TAS at this alt…(i flew an SM 92).
I mean even if you don’t trust me - this entire thread from 2021 - 2022 describes in detail the challenges whilst flying and/or fighting them - from the perspective of highly experienced (and successful) fighter pilots:
I don’t care which BR they give the Wyvern, the problem is that even 4.7/5.0 there are many new players who get killed by the Wyvern, because even with the FW190 F8 with two 30mm cannons and with inferior performance to the Wyvern I happen to get 3/4 kills, and the same thing goes when I fly with the Do 335.
So they move it down to where nothing can catch it?
The only planes I’ve seen Wyvern’s outrun is Zero’s. Literally everything else can easily catch them.
That is demonstratively untrue
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The Wyvern can do almost 650kph in level flight at sea level (and can do the same up to 3,000m)
for reference for Bf 109K-4 can only do 603@SL and the Fw 190D-9: 621@SL
it really shouldn’t be below 5.0, it takes a substantial energy advantage + dive for most fighters this BR to catch a Wyvern, it’s very unserious.
edit: OP is also drunk, the Wyvern isn’t even close to the performance of the A2D-1
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Imho your reply has nothing to do with what i wrote.
You claimed that a Wyvern will lose any dogfight - and i replied this makes no sense as any competent pilot will avoid a dogfight at any cost.
So your answer claiming that you have no problem with getting kills in it (or with other strike aircraft) has nothing to do with dogfights - all of these aircraft can get kills with forced headons supported by air spawn - or just by 3rd party kills - but this is not a dogfight in the actual meaning.
Wyvern easily holds 600kph+ IAS in level flight.
There is literally nothing at 4.0 and almost nothing at 5.0 that can keep up with that
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Maybe I didn’t explain well, the Wyvern gets kills on distracted or inexperienced enemy planes, and has only one way to survive which is to run away, if the enemies make the mistake of chasing it on the plain it’s not the Wyvern’s fault.
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better than the A2D? thats funny.
It really is not.
As for the Wyvern, get above it, then you can dive on it with enough speed.
AND in any case - 99% of wyvern players are just suicidal bombers, they pretty much always get a base then die, rinse and repeat.
I totally agree with your statement regarding the SU-11 however.
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idiots getting themselves killed trying to bomb a base and people using it to grind by bombing bases and ignoring everything else.
4 wyverns on your team, all going for a base, all get killed and leave. leaves your team 4 players down for absolutely nothing.
They gave it such bad kill ratio / win ratio gaijin lowered it.
Problem is also, its not classed as bomber,so you can end up in team with 15 Wyverns and you solely in something else. Which cannot happen with 288s as bombers are limited to 4 per team due to this reason.
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Imho you might consider using a better translator.
The whole thread deals with the speed advantage of this thing - which helps it to avoid any classic dogfight and use the superior speed for farming noobs, getting cheap 3rd party kills solely based on speed way too high for this BR.
So claiming:
#1 - it will lose every dogfight
#2 - it allows a lot of kills vs noobs
#3 - it has only one way to survive (to run away)
…has nothing to do with the way too low BR as they are direct results of this.
So it is not a matter of “explaining” it “well” - it is a matter of if you meet a good pilot abusing this speed advantage or not.
The poor tanker guy flooding Air RB lobbies performing “point and click” nonsense on ground units is an indirect threat even for experienced players due to the inflicted ticket damage.
Experienced pilots have no problem to deal with Wyverns, all you have to do is to get above 5 km, keep an eye on them and you are safe.
The plane is a problem with the ability to kill a lot of noobs early game (so either farming clueless tankers in bombers or rushing into the enemy climb zone) and these losses have a severe impact on the numbers game - which limits the chances to win significantly.
So if you then fight “real” fighters at higher alt - these guys farm your tickets undisturbed as you can’t take them out - as diving on them results then that you have 2-4 guys at your six.
In order to get better results with your Wyvern - just ask guys like @Loofah , they use it to their strengths.
Dude - in theory.
This is reality:
I do not see any aircraft at 4.3 that can easily dive and run down a wyvern flown by an experienced player. You really need to focus on an advanced wyvern player for a very long time in order to set up a successfull dive attack.
It takes a lot of patience and experience to gain enough alt, predicting the flight path and to execute the dive attack in this way to allow you to score any kind of hits. In general, the strongly increased drag of your dive kills most of your energy advantage, and your time window for scoring any kind of hits is very small, if you were no able to close the horizontal distance to the wyvern before you dive. If u calculated your energy losses wrong - you lose the rest of your energy/speed advantage extremely fast and you are back at square 1.
This ratio dropped to somewhere between 50-70%.
These days are long gone - currently you see:
- More of them in a match
- 30 - 50% are used as fighters
- They farm other noobs early match with severe impact on numbers
Although correct in theory - i never had more that 10 Wyverns with or against me (mainly during score based events). I do agree that a limit of 6 would be nice. And the 4 slot limit of bombers (2017?) had other reasons, mainly to avoid destruction of your airfield within a few minutes.
No offense man, but you claimed this already 2 years ago:
…and it is still not true :-)