State of Type 93

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
114

Not just that but both Type 91 and SAM-1C actually use both at the same time as long as they are in range to track the respective band.

The only thing that should be selected is the initial lock and which bands are tracked will always be both unless one is out of range. But if it get’s in range the missile will pick up tracking of the other band as well.

Edit: Sadly not in game, Gaijin has them only use the one the initial lock is done with as of now. But on the dev server it has quite good IRCCM for IR and no ground clutter for TV, so maybe that simulates this function.

2 Likes
115

The EO function at least works at targetting Heli’s at 4-5km and beyond, even on winter maps where IR ranges are usually nerfed to suicidal ranges so at least there’s that. IR does get spoofed by about a half dozen flares of normal size, and probably one or two pops of large-caliber but I wasn’t able to test.

My question would more so be whether or not the EO channel will get jammed by the Russian IR Dazzlers on the heli’s or if they’ll partially get spoofed by the IRCM Pods of the Russian Su-25T/Su-39.

Realistically I don’t think that should be an issue being as it’s looking in the visible light spectrum and not the IR band at all so there shouldn’t be any interference but I don’t know. I also don’t know if even minor cloud cover behind a target will make a missile lose it’s track even if the plane itself is flying in a straight line.

One of the big changes I do hope to see however is that they improve the flight pathing/Autopilot of the Type-81C missile before it’s released being as it will overlead a target by a significant margin and only correct it when closing in close to a target in most cases. Think of how the Type 91 missile tracked a target in the old days before they reworked it’s auto-pilot

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116

In a custom battle, a f16 player was able to consistently avoid my missiles and kill me, by flying low to the ground and sometimes going under the airfield. What interested me, was that he could fly straight at me at tree top level, and my missiles didnt proxy even though it was well within the radius.

117

Currently on the dev it doesn’t really suffer from any interference like ground, clouds or countermeasures (even the Su-39 ones). Only helicopters I didn’t test.

I feel like this might be simulating the dual tracking the missiles do in reality, but the description in the devblog makes me worry it will be changed to function like the Strela.

118

From what I’ve seen it doesn’t. Flares, IRCM or DIRCM don’t affect the EO lock.

119

Shame the Dev Server has now been closed which leaves us unable to do further testing.

I was able to do some testing against helicopters on a winter map to further see what would happen with the new mode switching and so on, and what we found was somewhat interesting.

With an IR lock set on the Arctic Map, I was only able to lock the Japanese Apache at a range of ~1.4km or so with the Type 91 missile.

With the EO lock set on the Arctic map, I was able to grab a lock at a range of at least 5km against the same target even when the helicopter was just barely poking above the ground with no mountainous terrain BEHIND the target.

Against aircraft on the same map, I was able to acquire an IR lock against the J-35/J-37 at a range of ~4.5km while they were on afterburner, while with an EO lock I was able to get a lock range of ~7km or under similar conditions.

I did not test how weather affected EO performance however being as I didn’t have the time for it, so I was not able to see how EO was affected due to background cloud obstructions, rain/snow storms, and so on. I’m cautiously optimistic it’ll at least bring the Type 91 missile up to being on par or a bit ahead of the FIM-92’s in game which feel to get better locks on the same targets at longer ranges but, we’ll have to see.

EDIT: I would also like to state the Tan-SAM’s Type 81C missile was able to similarly get a ~7.5km EO lock against the same areal target and a similar +5km EO lock on a heli without ground background barely poking above the ground surface itself. EO in both cases was able to ignore flares entirely where IR was spoofed by flares when dropped in high numbers.

I would also like to state I’ve heard rumors from Dataminers that the Type 81 ARH model is in the game files but not currently being used. I have no way to verify if the claim is true myself, however if it is, that will mean when/if the TanSAM system receives the missile, engagement ranges will be increased, the vehicle should receive a vehicle-to-missile Datalink to steer the missile to an IR Tracked target before the missile goes pitbull, and the problem with flares and IR/EO lock ranges of course will be avoided and substituted for radar notching, burn through, etc.

120

The proxy on the Type 81 only activates if the missile is 25m above the ground, this may be why your proxy was not triggering.

1 Like
121

Should still remain superior to the Strela, which should have great issues with cloud cover and ground clutter with it’s sensor because it’s style of photocontrast seeking is just 1960s tech compared to the modern imaging infrared on the Type 93 and Type 81. Same deal the Strela’s seeker is well known to be spoofed by passive dazzlers in Iraq and Afghanistan during the GWOT and Iraq war, however that does not seem to be the case currently as it just ignores all countermeasures.

But yeah given this is war thunder I would not be surprised sadly if they are put on the same level as the russian tech from years prior because thats how gaijin functions.

122

Not to mention there’s a video of a Strela missile getting spoofed by flares from a Ka-52.

123

there’s new datamine that add background factor for the Type 91 SAM and Type 81 SAM

Datamine

Background factor edited

don’t know how this will affect though, probably not complete since it was such a miniscule of number.
they probably add another factor that add to that number. but i don’t really know.

1 Like
124

Curious that the Strela did not get such a value.

125

I may be wrong, but I think the Strela already had it on dev, it was just missing from the Type 81 and Type 93.

126

If someone can get confirmation on that, that would be good to know.

127

From what I know they added ground interference for type93 on latest dev, which seems to be wrong

“By improving the background suppression performance of the guidance system’s image processing, it has become possible to separate low-altitude targets that could not be detected from the background terrain (complex background) and to capture and track them.”

エ）結 果 b

ｂ 誘導装置の画像処理における背景抑圧性能を向上させることにより、それまで捕捉できなかった低空目標を、背景となる地形(複雑背景)と区分し、捕捉・追随することが可能となった。

Also interesting part
“Special notes
The uncooled infrared image sensor technology of the sighting device was utilized in the interception operation section of the Type 11 short-range surface-to-air guided missile”

3 Likes
128

Also I think I will remove most of things I wrote about it when patch comes out. With new optical system its basically new vehicle so I will rewrite it later when I get a feeling I understand how good(or “good”) it is

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129

This is likely talking about the Type 91B since “a” talks about infrared imaging and “c” talks about a reduced smoke motor. Hope isn’t lost though since the Type 93 has access to the Type 91B/SAM-2B

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130

But IIR shouldn’t really be affected by ground interference, you 100% sure it is about 91B?
To me it looks like reports of separate tests for each system of missiles.

131

I checked, Strela has it too.

1 Like
132

So far, loving this new update. Finally took down a heli 5.50km!!! FINALLY BRO!! I WANNA CRY!

133

Type93 on live right now have separated IR and optical contrast which is wrong. In any possible source IR and optical are mentioned as combined so it must not have ground interference.

If they reject removing interference we can try asking them to change targeting into spike system because of this:
https://web.archive.org/web/20030514151944fw_/http://jda-clearing.jda.go.jp/kunrei/i_fd/iz1993p4201.html
“ＳＡＭ－３は、地上において目標に誘導弾をロックオンさせた後、発射することができる”
“SAM-3 can fire guided missiles after locking onto the target on the ground.”(which also confirmation that ground is not a problem for type91)
Wouldn’t be really useful but still fun and better then what they usually do with type93