This is not really the most important case here
then why can we j-out in the game if its forbidden? lol
Please keep the thread on topic going forward, If you feel like there is someone abusing the flag system reach out to a forum moderator in PM instead of going off topic in the thread.
1 Like
Doesn’t matter if a missile or anything else was about to cause someones death, the ToS does not state you are required to be killed by an enemy before you leave your vehicle. If I or anyone else uses the leave vehicle mechanic to change vehicle it is being used for it’s intended purpose, it is entirely irrelevant whether or not an enemy was about to potentially kill you. Similarly you are entitled to leave a match whenever you wish, and using the leave match button is using it for it’s intended purpose of removing yourself from the match, outside circumstances are irrelevant as it is being used as intended.
Leaving your vehicle is an intentional part of the game and I, or anyone else, can change their vehicle or leave the game whenever they wish to do so regardless of the exigent circumstances.
If you get flipped, if you wanna switch vehicles, or if you wanna repair/rearm on airfields faster are the reasons that immediately come to mind.
You are exactly why the rules are “vague”.
No, if you are J-ing out to avoid getting killed (and it will be quite obvious as it always is) then you deserve whatever consequences come.
5 Likes
Because we can do it normally, and it is not against the rules. There are literally no rule that they can point toward.
And bear in mind that they talk about “spirit of fair play” while they do not have any definition of it
This is not how rules work. Rules are not about “how do you feel about it”. Rules must not be vague to avoid abusement.
Like flag system that is being abused daily here by 99% of users to block post they don’t like.
You are exactly why the rules are “vague”.
No, the rules are vague because the owners don’t want to be held accountable for the rules they create and wish to be able to do whatever they want without any repercussions or recourse.
No, if you are J-ing out to avoid getting killed (and it will be quite obvious as it always is) then you deserve whatever consequences come.
No, I’m Jing out to change vehicle or leaving the match because I’m done playing. The mechanic is being used as intended, does not matter in the slightest if an enemy does not get a kill as a result.
If dying to an enemy was a requirement before being able to leave the game then you would not be able to leave the match without dying without force closing.
If dying to an enemy was a requirement for being able to change vehicle then you would not be able to use the leave vehicle button to change vehicle without dying to the enemy first.
Options within the game being used for their intended purpose, simple as that.
2 Likes
Rules can absolutely be vague. To use a very specific example; in almost every single modern society, murder is illegal. That’s effectively how every society writes that law. There are very little, if any, specfications beyond “you cannot take the life of other.” We understand and all operate under law with the knowledge that this covers and includes the various means in which you would do such a thing. The writing of the law doesn’t specify or list every single way you could possibly to do it.
3 Likes
I think you will find that laws are considerably more concise and specific than simply “murder is illegal”.
There are intended uses for the J-out mechanic, denying the enemy a kill isn’t one of them.
3 Likes
Sure, there exists legalese in such things. But the core principle and concept of it is very simple. It’s the cases that come about the violation of the law that see the legalese added.
1 Like
I think you will find that laws and crimes have very specific definitions precisely so that you can’t just do what a lot of companies try to do with EULAs and ToS (create incredibly vague definitions so they can shoehorn whatever they want in to fit their bill) because that would be incredibly unjust.
There is no definition needed. If someone is camping the airfield in Air RB, they may be technically actively playing, but it still counts as passive behavior.
If you J-out every time I fire a missile at you and you just say “I felt like leaving”, do you think that’s not unsportsmanlike?
If every enemy you faced J’d out right before you shot them, do you think that’d be both fair AND completely indistinguishable from someone landing and leaving the match?
Rules are only “vague” in terms of the exact conditions that can get you punished, because as Necronomica has said - if they WERE specific, people would find loopholes to be complete assholes while being unable to be punished.
The rules are pretty good at telling you what not to do - namely, not J-ing out conveniently right before, say, you get strafed by an A-10 while in the best SPAA the game has ever seen.
Oh, so you just happened to be done playing when you saw that missile coming for you? When you missed a shot on a tank which is now looking at you and about to fire?
How convenient.
1 Like
Unfortunately (in your case here), Gaijin holds the cards for determining what violated their EULA that you agreed to when you first launched the game. You’re welcome to uninstall it and subsequently no longer play if you find such terms vague, confusing, or in volation of your own personal views or beliefs. It seems pretty clear where they stand on how they want to handle, address, and or define said exploit/violation in the spirit of the game. Dying to an enemy is simply part of the experience and circumventing that to deny the kill (a reason that has been expressed here) is indeed a violation in their eyes.
1 Like
You would be right if EULAs were always a legally binding contract, which they are not. Especially within the EU.
One of the factors which would potentially make a EULA unenforceable within the EU includes being too vague.
Rules are only “vague” in terms of the exact conditions that can get you punished, because as Necronomica has said - if they WERE specific, people would find loopholes to be complete assholes while being unable to be punished.
The rules are pretty good at telling you what not to do - namely, not J-ing out conveniently right before, say, you get strafed by an A-10 while in the best SPAA the game has ever seen.
No they are vague so that they can shoehorn or angle anything they want into one category or another. If “loopholes” are such a big concern then they would amend the rules to account for those loopholes, it simply boils down to the owners not wishing to be held accountable. It’s the same reason why real world justice systems have very specific conditions and criteria for crimes, because otherwise it would just been seen as a fascist dictatorship.
Oh, so you just happened to be done playing when you saw that missile coming for you? When you missed a shot on a tank which is now looking at you and about to fire?
How convenient.
Utterly irrelevant, game mechanics are being used as they are intended, ToS does not state you are required to wait until killed by an enemy to change vehicle or leave the game and the mechanics do not impose any restrictions upon you doing so.
Not to mention, J’ing out still applies the repair cost against the player who does so, regardless of their reason. So to do such, you still take the penality, gain zero reward, and can potentially cost your team the win. Regardless of the way certain individuals want to spin it, I don’t see them winning said argument in any capacity. Just continue to report those who J’out to avoid an elimation and Gaijin will sort it out.
1 Like
Ah so you’re arguing that Jing out damages the team? Guess we had best remove the ability to J out then entirely. We should also remove the ability to leave the match before the end since it damages the team.
Given that as cited from the ToS both of these instances are deliberately contributing to the teams loss. These features should both be removed from the game entirely for breaching ToS.
Excellent idea.
1 Like
If you want to make such a suggestion, go for it.
1 Like