Ah yes, so people should spawn another MBT after a jet just bombed them and their team mates, ignore the fact that they are also past half of the match duration and there could be other planes or helicopters up too. They should leave their AA as a last resource when they cant spawn anything else and lose the match. Yeah, makes a lot of sense.
3 Likes
They would have their spawn protection as defence, about 15 seconds if they play their cards right. Of course some AGMs can be fired at distances that can take too long (Kh-38 series missiles) but if they see an aircraft like that at a distance too far for spawn protection to protect them, they can sacrifice their spawn protection to go behind cover as they have enough time.
So you’re saying they should be able to kill the plane for free without the plane being able to fight back in any way?
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No, you said that missile SPAA wouldn’t have available missiles on spawn. That means they are defenseless. Missile SPAA should NEVER need to wait to have missiles available and fireable for any length of time after spawning. No other vehicle in game has that, and it pilots loiter in the spawn area long enough to get missiled by a spawning SPAA then they deserved it. What an absolutely asinine idea, that a vehicle can’t use its primary weapon until after it’s spawn protection is gone. Imagine if that was suggested that for other ground vehicles, it would make spawn killing easier…
4 Likes
Top tier is, has been and probably always will be unbalanced. The ever increasing ‘sophistication’ of technology in top tier and the distinct importance of upgrade status mean the whole range at the top inevitably skews hard in certain directions given what vehicles/technology are favored at the time.
A player can save themselves a lot of headache by avoiding that perpetual mess, though people are free to engage it as they please.
To deny kills by bailing out is an embarrassing sportsmanship issue and is certainly a matter of griefing.
Bailing out is the passive, defeatist move of sore losers–desperate to deny opponents earnings in what is perceived to be an imminent loss–you cannot even honestly call it gameplay. Of course, many attack bailers flee from would fail…so often their vehicles are wasted for no reason except spite.
When you see someone bail out to deny an expected defeat, what you are seeing is contempt for competition. The player is so terrified of their own loss that they guarantee it just to swindle their foes out of what would be earned results. It’s an entitled, unsporting move…but that’s what they’re up to.
At its core, the mentality of bailers is toxic…part of the WT playerbase’s underbelly. People with the starch and talent to make it in-game don’t have to bail out, they stay with it–win, lose or draw.
It is not surprising to see the most prevalent poster here defending this griefing is a player known to rely upon a manipulated, cheesy setup. Amid their ‘free frags’ babble, they threaten to bail out on any competition they feel unfavorable about…but it’s the other people who want free frags! lmao
Does a person who goads an enemy into bailing win the engagement by doing so? Partially, but they don’t receive their rightful earnings for doing so. Resolving this would be complicated (there are legitimate reasons to bail out in other instances), but I suspect a mechanic like the TK apology setup could be put together.
As a matter of face, squadrons and other groups ought to discourage this: being a sore loser is far more embarrassing than being defeated.
Yes, the same way you would get killed by a spawn protected tank if you are camping the spawn on ground. You think that because you are flying at a speed that lets you cross the whole ground map in seconds it means that you cant spawn camp with a plane. Guess what, you are doing just that if you want to bomb freshly spawned AA, the same way a helicopter can spawn camp hovering at 6+ km and outside the ground map. Getting upset because your only real counter (aside for fighter planes) its doing its job and you cannot kill them as easy as you kill a tank that, at best has a roof mg to defend itself, its sad and silly.
SPAA purpose is to discourage pilots from flying too close to the battlefield and protect their fellow team mates by scaring away or destroying aircraft. The reward for shooting down aircraft is already a joke and depending on the BR played even heavily undertiered aircraft can get a bunch of kills, which grant even less rewards when you destroy them. You can even see this around 8.3 with the infamous gepard around: some dude takes a cap and a scout assist, gets killed/J out and spawns some WW2 thing even before there is any AA on the map.
So yeah, i have no pitty for aircraft being shot down and i regularly play CAS both with planes and helis. I will get shot down by AA but i wont be asking for nerfs to my only counter bc that will also justify nerfing ALL CAS so tanks dont die as easily to them. Would you want that too?
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Not really, pantsir can kill planes immediately on spawn in. ADATs can effectively track and engage low flying aircraft especially those just pulling off from an attack run. Anything in between these extremes is also undeserving of spawn protection.
The only SPAA at a BR where CAS is slightly threatening that could use spawn protection is the stormer.
I J out in SPAAs in three cases :
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i got disabled by a tank and can’t fire, while knowing an AGM is coming at me. I will usually leave the vehicle and give the kill to the tank, because that one at least bothered fighting its way through the map and managed to find me (i usually don’t sit at spawn)
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i got no ammo. No point in waiting for someone to kill me, it’s just tactically stupid to be useless to the team for 2 to 3 minutes. Only exception being if there’s an available and secured point where i can resupply of course
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i play a manpads AA against an heli slinging AGMs from 4 or more km and there’s no cover available
now regarding AGMs that can outrange SPAAs, especially at top tier : i shoot them down, as much as i can, but 2 planes are enough to make your usual top tier AA dry. Most importantly, shooting down AGMs gives no rewards what so ever. I only do it because it’s better to have my vehicle dry than 1/3rd of my team dead.
I also had one instance of a CAS guy throwing his entire arsenal, me intercepting all of it (4 x KH38), getting impatient and flying too close, and finally J’ing out when realising a VT-1 was headed his way.
Regarding the initial subject…
- Make SPAA easier to resupply with room to maneuver, behind spawn or on the flanks
- Give a reward for shooting down AGMs
- Lower the cost of CAP equipped with ARHs to the level of an heli equipped with rockets
- Fix the damn manpads and their laughable lock range and G pull
… and then we will talk about the issue of SPAAs J’ing out
7 Likes
The counter is not being present in their spawn for 15 seconds…
Su25SM3 = 40KM range AGM. 20KM tracking range. Show me a non-russian SAM that can counter it.
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I have to start to do this more frequently .
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Yeah, sorry. I have absolutely 0 sympathy for CAS players in this regard. If you want to play a vehicle that is almost exclusively used for revenge kills, and frequently bombs people who just left their spawn, then yeah, I think you deserve to have your fun ruined every now and then too.
If your fun-ruining is perfectly balanced and an intended game mechanic, then so is taking advantage of spawn protection to ruin your fun in return. Get over it.
9 Likes
Tanks spawncamping is an unrelated issue, because it actually is an issue.
Letting CAP first spawn would be horrible bruh.
Tbh they should just make CAP a proper role ingame instead of just “Cas sp for half the rewards”
Yes, but sadly that would require a rework of how Realistic battles work as a whole. How it is now, you would have to deal with toxic CAS-hates who waste slots on their team by first spawning CAP every games and only getting 2 kills whole game.
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I would prefer more people spawning anti air or air counters at the start of the game then the current style, though first spawn CAP seems a bit iffy (gun CAS off of a “CAP” A-10 or MiG-27)
So they do much more on average than You
8 Likes
If we had RB EC then maybe they could be useful.
Lol, sure bro, whatever you say. Insults dont address the point, and its hard to take someone seriously when theyre trying to make their already strong advantage even stronger.
Get good bro.
By the way, Jing out and using spawn prots to shoot you out of the sky IS counterplay. You are arguing for removing a counterplay option to a class that already has very little counterplay. Irony at its absolute thickest.
6 Likes