You mean the one with conventional launch showcase values with r73, 9L, py3?
Hell we are talking about 9B here. graph with 1ma 9b (which will never be at the br) urself, remember to think about seekers. I don’t think this graphing’s even necessary xD
If you know in advance it’s no gepard/247 and you can find it before overshooting, yes
Stingers starts to smoke a few hundred meters after launch. Not really good for plain maps but enough for city maps/ city zones
1vN is not easy. And should not be easy
Like, change plane to AA and change AA to plane. 70sp is easier to spawn than 800sp right?
In practice, 2 more minutes per run and no secured kill every run. aka ground game’s too short. @Beeschurger Here we are again, planes can slow down without nerfing themselves only when ground don’t end the whole thing in 5 min. Potential of killing does not count if the kill is estimated to be achieved after the end.
AAs are having kills without basic positioning and basic shootings huh
and when can people know about the stinger…
Can we try it, you in tu4, me in stinger.
I’m actually curious if it can pull a headon stinger… we do have that 1m vt right?
Usually there’s a third place between spawns, sometimes a fourth or more on the edges and corners. About the implicit map issues, we can also go back to the fast games. Spending 2 min to stay away per run is good enough for a solid ~25min game, but in a 7min one? Would better use 80% less sp to stay on the ground. I’m even having free kills when spawn camp on either side happens…
With dirt and forest, rocks and buildings.
and visual inspection is for all cas at the br, but not for most AA for they have radars. poor 93 compared to other AAs.
Make a separate pool of SP for planes where only kills add to it. No caps, no hits, maybe assists add half as much as kills.
I still wondering how many players still doesn’t know how to using T61 to report the enemy aircraft, which is the biggest cheat function for SPAA players
It’s a really good IFF in simulation battles haha. You can also use it in some planes with decent consistency. Especially with a targeting pod.
It is surprising that the crew members will report any aircraft that is even behind the mountains or trees, even it is on the ground, which is better than Radar lmao
Yeah, it has unlimited range, and you can spam it every couple of seconds. It’s crazily good.
Even if it IS one of those, it’s by far the tactic that gives the best results. If I’m paying attention to the killfeed and notice one such gun and/or hybrid SPAA in the killfeed, I’ll watch for it’s position, then do a popup attack as close as terrain allows me to get. You literally don’t have a better option unless you’re using standoff range munitions, and it’s still fairly consistent.
And it also draws a straight line back to where it was launched from. You don’t exactly need a degree in mathmatics to extrapolate the trajectory and find out the approimate position of the SPAA.
Funny that CAS can render themselves immune to infinite numbers of IR SAMs if they play smart. The same manuever that dodges one missile dodges them all.
The difference being that SPAA can only hide in specific locations in a tiny map, while aircraft can approach from any angle and altitude they desire.
So, wild question here, but if you know (or at least suspect) that CAS is going to be too slow to change the outcome of the game, why are you spawning it in?
CAS has always been slower than spawning in (most) other tanks in terms of game impact, to both somewhat counteract revenge bombing but also to balance out CAS’s incredible game impact when used properly. CAS can quickly and with only marginal effort kill any player on the map, in almost any location, almost regardless of their attempts to do anything about it. Heavily armored casemate locking down a sightline? Bomb. Hulldown heavy acting as a roadblock? Bomb. Light tank on a flanking run? Strafe. The enemy’s top player, on a killsteak and close to a nuke? Bomb. A surgical CAS strike can completely turn the tides of the game in a way no ground vehicles generally can. And most CAS vehicles can do that multiple times.
You do see the “but” in that sentence, right? Just want to be clear that you’re actually taking the time to read what you’re arguing with.
Of course it can, almost anything can. Just full pull and roll, unless you have no energy in the tank or you’re in a heavy bomber you will outpull any IR SAM outside the 10.0+ high G ones. The missile with overlead in a circle and be unable to correct back towards the plane.
So three small areas. Possibly a fourth, map depending. Versus almost infinite vectors, many of which won’t give the SPAA any clue until it’s almost too late.
…Yes. You should stay on the ground. That’s how it works. Not every vehicle in your lineup is going to be equally applicable in every situation. You wouldn’t spawn an SPAA if you’re being actively spawncamped by tanks, you wouldn’t spawn a slow, armor reliant heavy onto a full uptier on an open map, and you don’t spawn CAS if you think safely flying it in is going to take too long to matter.
And if you do decide to spawn in those ill-advised options in those situations, you don’t then get to whine on the forums that your bad call wasn’t rewarded.
Finding targets is not remotely difficult, it’s what CAS has been doing since tier one. Picking SPAAs out also isn’t hard, they usually have distinctive sillohettes and predictable positioning. Finding hidden ones is obviously difficult, up until they engage you. Rare is the SPAA player that waits for a solid gun solution before firing, and everything else gives you ample time to react.
Quite a few SPAAs lack a search RADAR (or at least a useful one). The Chaparrals, the Shilka M4, the Type 91 and 81, the Antelope, the Strela, the SIDAM MISTRAL, the Lvrbv, and the Machbet.
This is nice, but you do have to actually be looking in the direction of an enemy aircraft to get anything out of it.
It’s a poor solution to the problem of the crazy spotting discrepancy between aircraft and ground vehicles. Just throw up some ground based RADARs and maybe an AWACs, which feed location data to SPAA automatically. These could then be interacted with by enemy CAS to temporarily blind SPAAs. Job done.
Caps are fine and should give sp after a the start of a match, problem is on a lot of maps taking your gokart to a cap and getting there before everyone else nets you a ton of sp with almost no risk at all. If you get like 2 scouts on the way and one of them dies youre basically in a plane or most def in a fully loaded heli thanks to airstrike in like 1 minute into the match.
Yeah well that’s why I said for caps to not count for plane SP. They should count for tanks
Yes, you can look around. No matter if they pop up, are already there, come from high up, etc. You will be able to see them. The vast majority of planes at this BR don’t have CCIP and have to get extremely close to hit you. Also, the lack of a search radar means that you are absolutely undetectable to planes until you fire; targeting pods are nonexistent at this BR range. You have a massive advantage against aircraft: you blend in with the terrain while enemy aircraft are silhouetted obviously against the sky.
AIM-9B is surprisingly effective. Also, your argument is irrelevant. We are talking about the Type 93’s missile, which has much higher thrust and maneuverability, and can be fired from a very long range in all aspects. This just makes you seem like you are arguing in bad faith, which you probably are.
I don’t know, maybe use cover? This isn’t a Ground Arcade thread. You don’t need to go behind enemy lines to surprise enemy aircraft. Unless your team has been pushed back to spawn (at which point the game is already lost) there are a plethora of points at which you can safely drive to and work from. However, most SPAA players just camp on spawn regardless, which is a major skill issue.
Ambushing is extremely effective. Planes or helicopters are forced to look at small areas of the map at a time, because ground targets are hard to detect. If using guided ordnance, which is either MCLOS AGMs for planes or SACLOS ATGMs for helicopters at this BR, they will need to zoom in to a massive extent to be able to effectively guide them. Aircraft are not able to maintain situational awareness while on an attack run. Against the Type 93, preflaring is useless, so it’s pretty much impossible to attack ground targets until the Type 93 is taken out.
Most maps are flat and don’t offer this cover. This is another case of a biased opinion which ignores the facts.
Completely ignoring energy loss. No plans is able to sustain enough energy to defeat an infinite number of SAMs; this is just a ridiculously biased opinion with no basis in reality. Even 1 IR SAM is hard to dodge if fired from rear aspect.
“Just don’t play CAS” very valid argument for a person claiming CAS is overpowered.
Another extremely general argument that falls apart with a single critical thought. Finding targets is easy for SPAA at any range; for CAS, visual range for ground targets is less than 5 km away without targeting pods. Often closer.
You have a massive skill issue if you think that SPAA need AWACs and long range ground radar to be effective. Maybe someone should check your stats.
Hes better than you lmao
The best, but not worth my sp
Sacrificing teammate
Sometimes pops up can be reacted by osa, see vid before.
Indeed, cas has only this one last choice.
I don’t think dodging headon stingers is OP… you aren’t trying to clear the sky before anyone starts an attack ain’t it.
Tailed ones… well… haven’t reached a best conclusion since last time xD
The difference being that SPAA can go around based on ground team fronts and radar have plane’s position till they submerged in terrain (when good terrain is available) giving an accurate early warning, telling you to take cover/ prepare to pop out/ back/ etc etc. You know where they went low, and you can try to guess a position just as how planes should guess a SPAA position. The difference is that you can usually hold back and stay safe if you made a mistake, and got the position of plane again by radar.
People don’t. I’m doing this less but I’m plane main anyways. Used to be CAP main but I’m doing NO CAP at this BR.
We are talking about specific BR ranges, where there’s no room for CAP and reduced effectiveness of CAS. I’m not stating “Planes there? Shoot with SPAA” or anything like this…
oops
Still unconvinced since the beginning of this thread xD
And, about stinger topic: Why are people still hit by Guns? Gun shots have tracers and they can’t even turn. If stinger is not enough what about
Oh CAP is dead.
If there’s no team. You aren’t going to be well in a tank to tank here either.
Mw the positions aren’t small if you are in a plane, at least for my 14in monitor. While planes can usually be predicted. They’ve turned right or left, and 3-4 major directions.
Imagine infinite millimeters for spaa to let them pop out at infinite milliseconds…
Indeed. Everyone should and everyone did, leaving no kills for SPAA.
Huh. Let’s not cry for any imba then.
And I’m not saying low tier/ mid tier SPAA is too much. Think about why.
These worst SPAA players can fail to shoot down a straight-flight shallow-diving guy in a m247. Or they just don’t spawn AA. Though here we are not talking about skills. To compare strength, we use the same skill level for both sides.
If plane knows only point and click, SPAA only point and click
If avg plane, avg SPAA
If the most careful plane, the best careful SPAA.
Beloved two D
But the best CAS options at this tier all either have CCIP or guided munitions. Sometimes both.
America: A-4E. If not that, Harrier. F-117. A-10 at 10.3.
Germany: Alpha Jet, MiG-23BN if absolutely required, Swiss Hunter, Su-22
Russia: Su-7BK, Su-25
Britain: Scimitar (Massively undervalued), Buccaneers, Harriers, Jaguar.
Japan: Alpha Jet. Admittedly, pretty underwhelming.
China: Q-5A, F-100s with Bullpups. Also pretty underwhelming. But then you get the Q-5L at 10.3, which is very solid.
Italy: G/91 Y, IAR if you have it, Su-22, Tornado if you’re feeling spicy.
France: Alpha Jet, Etendard, Jaguar E if you have it.
Sweden: SAAB 105G
Israel: A-4E (early), Ayit
Just slapping a couple of dumb bombs to a fighter and calling it a day works at lower tiers, but not at this one. You are expected to bring the best CAS option available to you.
Targeting pods start appearing at 10.0 and 10.3. Not that they are nessesary to spot the giant, obvious missile trails on the way in.
Tank sillohette tend to stick out against the terrain more than anything. And again, there’s only a couple hundred meters squared that SPAA could even be concievably hiding in. Planes have the entire sky.
The manueverability is identical. They pull the exact same amount of Gs, with the exact same guidance that leads to the exact same tricks working against both. The biggest difference is that the Type 91 gets a sustainer, meaning it’s harder to bleed it of energy.
This is just not possible on a wide variety of maps. Especially in this BR bracket, when high mobility wheeled vehicles with thermals and LRFs are on the prowl, just looking for ways to sneak through the lines and get cheeky angles. What are you supposd to do on Sands of Sinai? Carpathians? Seversk-13? Golden Quarry? Pradesh? Abandoned Factory? Middle East?
That’s also not mentioning the large numbers of extremely cramped maps with lots of vertical cover, where the only useful sightlines are at or near spawn, like Advance to the Rhine, Breslau, American Desert and Sweden.
If you choose a stationary target (Not remotely difficult), you barely need to guide it at all. And unless you assume your target is teleporting back and forth, you can easily take a quick second to scan for incoming missiles until you’re in terminal guidance.
Helicopters are also a red herring because if you’re hugging the terrain somewhere, the Type 91 literally cannot hit you until he closes to stupidly close range.
You make this sound so difficult, when all it requires is dodging the headon missiles, getting to within the ~2km deadzone where the missile can’t pull, and strafing the poor, helpless sod.
Plenty of maps do, but it feels like a waste of time to list them off.
Simply barrel roll downwards until you’re below where they can lock. Easy. Unles you’re in a vehicle utterly unsuitable for CAS, this is entirely doable.
That was also intentionally a ridiculous scenario, mainly to point that that while it’s at least somewhat feasible for the CAS planes, it’s blatantly impossible for the SPAA if you reverse the odds.
If the problem is “CAS is too slow to have game impact if played safely (AKA properly)”, then the answer is “Don’t spawn CAS in that situation”.)
Would you also spawn a Maus or T95 if your team was being triple capped with no map control and 5 minutes to go? No, of course not, it would be too slow. This doesn’t mean we make a special spawn for these type of vehicles right next to the cap point, it means that not all tools a player has will be equally applicable in all situations, and that’s fine.
Very easy to find planes using terrain to hide themselves completely until they’re within 2km of the SPAA. Childsplay, even.
Good thing you don’t just have to rely on eyesight for target identification alone. You’ll have spots, and pings from targets being hit, and capping information, and knowing where their spawns are, and seeing tracers, and knowing where powerful map positions are, and having spatial awareness while on the ground, and a tiny little box to search.
What do SPAA get, again? Some of them get RADAR with limited coverage. And killfeed information. And, if they want to annoy the hell out of their team, they can constantly T-6-1 in a circle and maybe get something.
Maybe you should have done this yourself before embarrassing yourself.
The feature has improved a lot over time, now we can even tell what kind of threats because they added different symbols to tell player whether it’s a drone, helicopter or plane. I actually bind a one-touch key to call out for years
Indeed, and that’s why I was annoyed when players couldn’t find CAS and complained
Also should look out for this arrow too right after respawn, this indicating that one or more air threats is right behind the ground spawn point.
ATLIS II is Black/White TV only, no thermal imaging options.
Apologies, I misremembered. Doesn’t really change the overall point though.