Also strela is balanced
Literally, How? Or, do they actually?
I never see much cas planes nor cas kills, some pros may do well bcs superior ability to toss/ team spawns no AA but that should be 1 in 100 games. I’m 100% serious when I said “I can’t remember the last time when I’m killed by CAS at the br”. Nor can I feel any anger, for they are soo poor they need help xD
If you use light tanks you get discounts on sp for planes, only require you to have one kill assist and one death to spawn a CAS lol any player with room temperature iq could do it, that’s how easy it is.
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If only he can always know your location, and not get shot down right after popping up
1vN
You mean survive an attack with spawn protection and shoot with ease?
Takes time, reduced efficiency, and ain’t this a basic move? Take cover and YOU are the one who POPS UP.
Don’t ask “what if he gets 1 kill before you shoot?” or anything. Don’t wish to have a always cleared
sky just bcs you spawned aa
Imagine high skill requirement + high risk + need of luck for CAS is normal
If you change 9b into stingers and put it into ARB, yes.
Why can’t so many people distinguish 9b and stinger xD
Huh
A Good old Map issue
B Positioning skill issue
Also, popping up from a place they don’t expect only works against inexperience SPAA players who stays under scout with their eyes glued to a specific spot.
Hey this reminds me another thing from bees, : If only planes are black dots in a clear back ground!
Good old Map issue. Is there? (normandy and city maps &c) Is that ridge too far away? (2271/ seversk/ mozdok) Or is that ridge soo close that everyone can hear? (maginot/ rhine)
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Lets be real, this is unachievable for certain players.
Werent you the one posting the misleading graph to show stingers are much better in tailchase than most A2A IRs while giving them 1000km/h initial speed, which will stinger simply never have?
If we take it for granted that only repeated IR SAMs are an issue due to the speed bleed that results from dodging missiles (Something I take issue with, but whatever), then closing the distance to ensure the enemy can only fire one missile if they even have time to fire any at all is a completely reasonble way to counter them.
You make it sound so easy when you can only take cover from one direction at once, and your position is telegraphed to every player the second you fire.
Ah yes, use the 20 seconds to gain perfect knowledge of every plane’s position regardless of if you can see it or not, then prioritize the planes based on how close they are to attacking you (Which, as we all know, requires no psychic powers of any kind), then convince missiles that cannot pull at close range to pull at close ranges. Presumably, we also use this 20 seconds to teleport to a safe position with cover? Beacuse moving cuts that spawn protection down to almost nothing. If anyone is remotely paying attention to the spawns and is capable of counting to 20, they will just bide their time in a safe location then pounce the second you’re vulnerable.
“Why won’t you trundle your slow and/or defenseless SPAA out into the map over the course of 20 seconds, during which they can’t actively engage any aircraft? Clearly, it’s just noob SPAA players who refuse to do this”
“What? Spend 20 extra seconds to approach the map safely in my CAS plane? That’s absurd, no-one has time for that, way too inefficient.”
The thing that “pops up” is the missile, which at any range it is capable of hitting planes, also gives them more than enough time to dodge. Which exact bush that missile came from is somewhat academic in the grand scheme of things unless the CAS pilot is utterly tunnelvisioned on one specific area of the map.
High skill = basic usage of terrain, basic map knowledge, basic spatial awareness. Got it.
Both pull 10G. Yes, the Stinger has more energy, and can be fired from front aspect giving you less time to dodge. But if you can dodge an AIM-9B, you can dodge a Stinger. And everything but a Tu-4 can dodge an AIM-9B.
The SAAB is incredible CAS, but when fully laden it’s very bricky. I can’t really imagine bringing in a CAS plane even more bricky than that and then getting angry at the SPAA for managing to shoot it down.
It’s not explicitly a map issue, when the problem is that SPAA cannot leave spawn and your solution is to leave spawn. Yeah, the map is to blame, but the problem is the map is impacting SPAA vs CAS balance.
So SPAA players trying to find small black dots in a 360 degree sky that could pop up from any angle at any time is in any way comparable to CAS players trying to find SPAA players within cramped, tiny maps that likely only have a couple of places they could be hiding?
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Ok? Removing airstrike is one of the only reasonable things I’ve seen CAS haters suggest. Literally everything else is completely insane.
You mean the one with conventional launch showcase values with r73, 9L, py3?
Hell we are talking about 9B here. graph with 1ma 9b (which will never be at the br) urself, remember to think about seekers. I don’t think this graphing’s even necessary xD
If you know in advance it’s no gepard/247 and you can find it before overshooting, yes
Stingers starts to smoke a few hundred meters after launch. Not really good for plain maps but enough for city maps/ city zones
1vN is not easy. And should not be easy
Like, change plane to AA and change AA to plane. 70sp is easier to spawn than 800sp right?
In practice, 2 more minutes per run and no secured kill every run. aka ground game’s too short. @Beeschurger Here we are again, planes can slow down without nerfing themselves only when ground don’t end the whole thing in 5 min. Potential of killing does not count if the kill is estimated to be achieved after the end.
AAs are having kills without basic positioning and basic shootings huh
and when can people know about the stinger…
Can we try it, you in tu4, me in stinger.
I’m actually curious if it can pull a headon stinger… we do have that 1m vt right?
Usually there’s a third place between spawns, sometimes a fourth or more on the edges and corners. About the implicit map issues, we can also go back to the fast games. Spending 2 min to stay away per run is good enough for a solid ~25min game, but in a 7min one? Would better use 80% less sp to stay on the ground. I’m even having free kills when spawn camp on either side happens…
With dirt and forest, rocks and buildings.
and visual inspection is for all cas at the br, but not for most AA for they have radars. poor 93 compared to other AAs.
Make a separate pool of SP for planes where only kills add to it. No caps, no hits, maybe assists add half as much as kills.
I still wondering how many players still doesn’t know how to using T61 to report the enemy aircraft, which is the biggest cheat function for SPAA players
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It’s a really good IFF in simulation battles haha. You can also use it in some planes with decent consistency. Especially with a targeting pod.
It is surprising that the crew members will report any aircraft that is even behind the mountains or trees, even it is on the ground, which is better than Radar lmao
Yeah, it has unlimited range, and you can spam it every couple of seconds. It’s crazily good.
Even if it IS one of those, it’s by far the tactic that gives the best results. If I’m paying attention to the killfeed and notice one such gun and/or hybrid SPAA in the killfeed, I’ll watch for it’s position, then do a popup attack as close as terrain allows me to get. You literally don’t have a better option unless you’re using standoff range munitions, and it’s still fairly consistent.
And it also draws a straight line back to where it was launched from. You don’t exactly need a degree in mathmatics to extrapolate the trajectory and find out the approimate position of the SPAA.
Funny that CAS can render themselves immune to infinite numbers of IR SAMs if they play smart. The same manuever that dodges one missile dodges them all.
The difference being that SPAA can only hide in specific locations in a tiny map, while aircraft can approach from any angle and altitude they desire.
So, wild question here, but if you know (or at least suspect) that CAS is going to be too slow to change the outcome of the game, why are you spawning it in?
CAS has always been slower than spawning in (most) other tanks in terms of game impact, to both somewhat counteract revenge bombing but also to balance out CAS’s incredible game impact when used properly. CAS can quickly and with only marginal effort kill any player on the map, in almost any location, almost regardless of their attempts to do anything about it. Heavily armored casemate locking down a sightline? Bomb. Hulldown heavy acting as a roadblock? Bomb. Light tank on a flanking run? Strafe. The enemy’s top player, on a killsteak and close to a nuke? Bomb. A surgical CAS strike can completely turn the tides of the game in a way no ground vehicles generally can. And most CAS vehicles can do that multiple times.
You do see the “but” in that sentence, right? Just want to be clear that you’re actually taking the time to read what you’re arguing with.
Of course it can, almost anything can. Just full pull and roll, unless you have no energy in the tank or you’re in a heavy bomber you will outpull any IR SAM outside the 10.0+ high G ones. The missile with overlead in a circle and be unable to correct back towards the plane.
So three small areas. Possibly a fourth, map depending. Versus almost infinite vectors, many of which won’t give the SPAA any clue until it’s almost too late.
…Yes. You should stay on the ground. That’s how it works. Not every vehicle in your lineup is going to be equally applicable in every situation. You wouldn’t spawn an SPAA if you’re being actively spawncamped by tanks, you wouldn’t spawn a slow, armor reliant heavy onto a full uptier on an open map, and you don’t spawn CAS if you think safely flying it in is going to take too long to matter.
And if you do decide to spawn in those ill-advised options in those situations, you don’t then get to whine on the forums that your bad call wasn’t rewarded.
Finding targets is not remotely difficult, it’s what CAS has been doing since tier one. Picking SPAAs out also isn’t hard, they usually have distinctive sillohettes and predictable positioning. Finding hidden ones is obviously difficult, up until they engage you. Rare is the SPAA player that waits for a solid gun solution before firing, and everything else gives you ample time to react.
Quite a few SPAAs lack a search RADAR (or at least a useful one). The Chaparrals, the Shilka M4, the Type 91 and 81, the Antelope, the Strela, the SIDAM MISTRAL, the Lvrbv, and the Machbet.
This is nice, but you do have to actually be looking in the direction of an enemy aircraft to get anything out of it.
It’s a poor solution to the problem of the crazy spotting discrepancy between aircraft and ground vehicles. Just throw up some ground based RADARs and maybe an AWACs, which feed location data to SPAA automatically. These could then be interacted with by enemy CAS to temporarily blind SPAAs. Job done.
Caps are fine and should give sp after a the start of a match, problem is on a lot of maps taking your gokart to a cap and getting there before everyone else nets you a ton of sp with almost no risk at all. If you get like 2 scouts on the way and one of them dies youre basically in a plane or most def in a fully loaded heli thanks to airstrike in like 1 minute into the match.
Yeah well that’s why I said for caps to not count for plane SP. They should count for tanks
Yes, you can look around. No matter if they pop up, are already there, come from high up, etc. You will be able to see them. The vast majority of planes at this BR don’t have CCIP and have to get extremely close to hit you. Also, the lack of a search radar means that you are absolutely undetectable to planes until you fire; targeting pods are nonexistent at this BR range. You have a massive advantage against aircraft: you blend in with the terrain while enemy aircraft are silhouetted obviously against the sky.
AIM-9B is surprisingly effective. Also, your argument is irrelevant. We are talking about the Type 93’s missile, which has much higher thrust and maneuverability, and can be fired from a very long range in all aspects. This just makes you seem like you are arguing in bad faith, which you probably are.
I don’t know, maybe use cover? This isn’t a Ground Arcade thread. You don’t need to go behind enemy lines to surprise enemy aircraft. Unless your team has been pushed back to spawn (at which point the game is already lost) there are a plethora of points at which you can safely drive to and work from. However, most SPAA players just camp on spawn regardless, which is a major skill issue.
Ambushing is extremely effective. Planes or helicopters are forced to look at small areas of the map at a time, because ground targets are hard to detect. If using guided ordnance, which is either MCLOS AGMs for planes or SACLOS ATGMs for helicopters at this BR, they will need to zoom in to a massive extent to be able to effectively guide them. Aircraft are not able to maintain situational awareness while on an attack run. Against the Type 93, preflaring is useless, so it’s pretty much impossible to attack ground targets until the Type 93 is taken out.
Most maps are flat and don’t offer this cover. This is another case of a biased opinion which ignores the facts.
Completely ignoring energy loss. No plans is able to sustain enough energy to defeat an infinite number of SAMs; this is just a ridiculously biased opinion with no basis in reality. Even 1 IR SAM is hard to dodge if fired from rear aspect.
“Just don’t play CAS” very valid argument for a person claiming CAS is overpowered.
Another extremely general argument that falls apart with a single critical thought. Finding targets is easy for SPAA at any range; for CAS, visual range for ground targets is less than 5 km away without targeting pods. Often closer.
You have a massive skill issue if you think that SPAA need AWACs and long range ground radar to be effective. Maybe someone should check your stats.