SPAA at 9.3-10.3 is hilariously OP and i see no one talking about it

[Beeschurger]

@Morvran

Eh… Id argue that sub 9.7 ish most CAS has to be well within range of SPAA to do much unless they are dropping bombs relatively blind,

Were talking about 1.5km effective range for platforms like Gepard, around 800m effective range for Vulcan and even less for WW2 vehicles.

Sure they can fire outside of those ranges and try to hit planes, but with WW2 vehicles that entirely hinges on the plane being asleep as to not notice tracers trying to lead him, as they have no fire control systems beside good old eyeball mk.1; with things like Gepard theres absolute range of like 3km where the HE shells self-destruct.

SPAA has to closely follow the tanks to battle to get as much effective range between their tanks and enemy planes as possible, which isnt always possible due to map design. Meaning sometimes SPAA doesnt even get its full effective range.

So if you think about it, while yes, most sub 9.7 CAS has to enter the SPAA range, if the CAS plane keeps its speed, SPAA has only short window to intercept it before it drops its payload.

And were not talking about things like supressing the SPAA first with unguided rockets, with enough speed and alt i can confidently launch HVARS or those Il-2 rockets towards SPAA at distances far exceeding the effective range of WW2 SPAA: or things like Bullups on A-4B, which can comfortably sit outside of SPAA effective range and sling Bullups at targets. Or the swiss Hunter which for some reason sits at 9.7 with two Mavs, which outrange any 9.7 and below SPAA beside the french Roland.

@Morvran

and more often than not, the team with heavy CAS usually looses the objectives and thus looses the match.

Team with bad* CAS.

Players that take fighter with single bomb, drop it and then spend rest of the game straffing ground targets is usually what loses the match.

[Creastroy]

@Nirvana7125

There is a reason for that, planes are significantly easier to use than Spaa when you learn what you are doing

Are we actually talking about 9.3-10.3 AAA (though I’d like to extend it to 8.0-11.0) ?

SPAAs are significantly easier to use than CAS when you learn to point and click.
(Basically don’t start shooting tracers at 4km)

@Nirvana7125

While SPAA are way harder, they have to actually shoot you down

While planes are way harder, they have to actually penetrate across AAA firepower, missile or AHEAD or VT with cold war handling + early supersonic maneuverability issues + no CCIP if we include 8.x + no wall hacks

@Nirvana7125

not an AIR battle, makes sense that it should be harder to get in planes

avg TO guy

@Beeschurger

Players that take fighter with single bomb, drop it and then spend rest of the game straffing ground targets

Imagine this thing happening at anywhere around 8.0-11.0 xD. How can SPAAs let him keep strafing

[Beeschurger]

@Creastroy

How can SPAAs let him keep strafing

Not enough players in game for one to hop into SPAA without giving up ground unit and most importantly positioning.

@Creastroy

While planes are way harder, they have to actually penetrate across AAA firepower, missile or AHEAD or VT with cold war handling + early supersonic maneuverability issues + no CCIP if we include 8.x + no wall hacks

Theres single dedicated AA with AHEADs in game, and two dedicated AAs with VT below 10.0 (and one doesnt even get a radar) IIRC, stop acting like its common thing.

[Creastroy]

@Beeschurger

Not enough players in game for one to hop into SPAA

Imagine unmanned planes controlled by a tank in ground map… but they are not here lol

@Beeschurger

stop acting like its common thing

Imagine…
F8F is the only thing with the capability at 4.7 stop acting like it’s common thing
Pantsir is the only AAA working at top tier stop acting like it’s common thing
E2K and RFL are the only CAS that out-pull Pantsir well stop acting like it’s common thing
Strela and 81c are the only UV seeker AAA stop acting like it’s common thing
etc. etc.

They are there to be discussed only after when you have confidence to survive brained gepards and shilkas without CCIP. Don’t tell me you think they are not enough.

Note in advance, with enough info and cover to sneak across the map you can kill leo2s with BT5. Think about equal & practical conditions.

[Beeschurger]

@Creastroy

Imagine unmanned planes controlled by a tank in ground map… but they are not here lol

what in the name of god are you even on about?

@Creastroy

F8F is the only thing with the capability at 4.7

capability to what?

@Creastroy

Pantsir is the only AAA working at top tier stop acting like it’s common thing

Topic is called “SPAA at 9.3 to 10.3”, why you bring BR 12.0 Pantsir into the discussion? Top tier is wholly different enviroment with its own nuances.

@Creastroy

E2K and RFL are the only CAS that out-pull Pantsir well stop acting like it’s common thing

See above.

@Creastroy

strela and 81c are the only UV seeker AAA stop acting like it’s common thing

A) unless they changed it, type 91 also has contrast seeker.
B) what even is the argument here? yes they indeed have contrast seeker giving them slightly better capability to engage high alt targets and the cost of being easily countered by hitting the deck.

@Creastroy

They are there to be discussed only after when you have confidence to survive brained gepards and shilkas without CCIP.

I take that english isnt your first language.

@Creastroy

Don’t tell me you think they are not enough.

what? Gepards and shilkas not being enough?

@Creastroy

Note in advance, with enough info and cover to sneak across the map you can kill leo2s with BT5.

indeed you can. just because BT5 can kill top tier tank under extremely specific conditions does not mean BT5 is top tier worthy.

[Creastroy]

@Beeschurger

just because BT5 can kill top tier tank under extremely specific conditions does not mean BT5 is top tier worthy.

These CASes are, sadly, in this condition.

(wow a cool forum feature
Take your own words as an example

@Beeschurger

yes they indeed have contrast seeker giving them slightly better capability to engage high alt targets and the cost of being easily countered by hitting the deck

Is a CAS able to
A) Find them without wall hacks when they are behind a rock or a small house? Sacrifice a teammate to let him fire, and have the 2v1 fight to be 1v1?
B) Dodge the missile. Missiles can be fired upwards to reduce the effect of ground cover, so the only way is to get out of the range whenever contrast is available. Will one be able to flare an IR strela? Wouldn’t expect that.
;
And this is all before he can start his attack.

And up to now nobody can recall the existence of our CAP force

;
Here’s a bit more explanation for you:

@Beeschurger

what in the name of god are you even on about?

A plane is controlled by a player. One more plane in the air one less player on the ground front, just as SPAAs.

@Beeschurger

capability to what?

For these sentences:

@Creastroy

@Beeschurger

stop acting like its common thing

Imagine…
etc. etc.

Things are widely played, no matter OP AAA/planes/anything else. the discussion is on the op part.

@Beeschurger

type 91

MB

@Creastroy

They are there to be discussed only after when you have confidence to survive brained gepards and shilkas without CCIP

Gepards and Shilkas are too good if played correctly for the turret traverse and gun handling, and for the lack of CCIP on many planes, since they would have to get closer for bomb drops. CCIP attackers are still vulnerable to these AAAs when they are not having info advantage/ sacrificing much efficiency themselves by blind tossing bombs. Plus there have been A2G weapon nerfs on all of bombs, rockets, MCLOS and cannons.
Above these already strong AAAs are PGZ09 and M247… do I have to continue?

[Kiersta_AI]

@Creastroy

TO

What’s that mean, I’m not really chronically online

[Kiersta_AI]

@Creastroy

Gepards and Shilkas are too good if played correctly

And CAS isnt? If you think SPAA is overpowered, stay out of planes 🤷

Don’t know what else to tell ya, everything has been placed at certain brs for good reasons, they don’t usually just chuck everything in the matchmaker and pray

[Beeschurger]

@Creastroy

These CASes are, sadly, in this condition.

Are you really equating BT5 killing top tier tank under very specific conditions to for example, 8.7 CAS plane facing 8.7 SPAA?

@Creastroy

Find them without wall hacks when they are behind a rock or a small house? Sacrifice a teammate to let him fire, and have the 2v1 fight to be 1v1?

Again what in gods earth is this argument?

If vehicle hides of course its harder to detect, thats no different for ground units or air.

If tank hides behind house, turn offs his engine and ambushes someone this way, do you think its like unfair or what?

You think it would be fair to see a target thats purposely hiding from you or what???

@Creastroy

Dodge the missile. Missiles can be fired upwards to reduce the effect of ground cover, so the only way is to get out of the range whenever contrast is available. Will one be able to flare an IR strela? Wouldn’t expect that.

Lot of 10.3 CAS planes (since you mention Strela which is 10.3 AA) have standoff ordnance that can be launched outside of Strelas lock-on range AND usually some way to spot ground targets. A-7, A-10s with Mavericks immidiately come to mind, with either B having optical zoom or G having IR (albeit bad one). Hell, the A-7E gets targeting pod.

Strela isnt getting anywhere close to launching at those planes and if it does the CAS plane has all the time in the world to defend by either dodging the missile, hitting the deck, flaring it or all of the above for good measure.

@Creastroy

A plane is controlled by a player. One more plane in the air one less player on the ground front,

A good CAS player can take out more tanks more easily, not mentioning providing air recon.

@Creastroy

For these sentences

@Creastroy

Things are widely played, no matter OP AAA/planes/anything else. the discussion is on the op part.

I still have zero clue what do you mean by saying that “F8F is the only thing with capability”. Capability for what? Grilling a mean steak?

@Creastroy

Gepards and Shilkas are too good if played correctly

And would still get walked over in A-4B with Bullups.

@Creastroy

they would have to get closer for bomb drop

The horror of not being able to bomb the enemy without any resistance.

@Creastroy

do I have to continue?

Maybe in learning at least basic english.

[Creastroy]

I do have to show that scenario again, whichever flareless plane, and ImpChapp.

[Creastroy]

@Beeschurger

If tank hides behind house, turn offs his engine and ambushes someone this way, do you think its like unfair or what?

You never gonna see the same camper around every corner without the ability to turn around in a ground vehicle. A2G is different. I don’t see the reason behind a guaranteed kill by every guaranteed visual contact.

@Beeschurger

You think it would be fair to see a target thats purposely hiding from you or what???

You think it would be unfair to let go a target that have to be in your range or what?

@Beeschurger

Strela isnt getting anywhere close to launching at those planes

There is another issue here. There are 116 tech tree vehicles, and more prem and event ones, sitting between 9.3-10.3. I’m not gonna count again for how many of them are having a2g capabilities, but many of them cannot deal with either strela or OSA properly (or neither)

There is a HUGE gap between CASes e.g. su22 vs a6e / mig23bn vs f58 Though they are all at the same BR. Yes a Q5L can climb super fast, spot with IR pod and blow 2 strelas up, but what about those with only monocoloured TV mavericks? What about those that are only 0.3 br below with only dumb weapons? And those full uptiered ones?

This is a compression issue regarding to 10.3 only. At the lower BRs they have stingers which… would take another eternity to explain why stingers can spoil attacks and bleed planes’ energy to death.

@Beeschurger

A good CAS player can take out more tanks more easily, not mentioning providing air recon.

Bad ground players let a single full load brick su22 to hang in the sky for 10min and kill 13. 0 tracers were shot at me.

@Beeschurger

And would still get walked over in A-4B with Bullups.

I’ve been recently on this one lol. Drive while shooting. He would be dead if he level fight for guidance, and wouldn’t be able to guide when he’s dodging. If he made it, check the skills.

@Beeschurger

any resistance

do you mean instant kill?

[Sternlos]

The only CAS players getting simply point and clicked out of the sky are the ones that have zero clue what they are doing and think they are flying an ac130 in CoD.

Pantsir cant even hit a plane farther than 8km if the pilot has half a brain and any expierence in dodging missiles and isnt letting themselves get in a vulnerable low energy state. Pantsir is the first thing I rushed in the russian tech tree bc I thought it was swatting people down at 15km, I just ended up getting clowned on by f16 pilots sitting up at altitude 10km away laughing at me, and if I was smart enough to move because at that range mavs dont track just point target they would come in low and wipe me out.

Honestly though 75% of my deaths in the pantsir were to ground vics either spawn camping or finding me as soon as i fired a missile and got scouted because all a light tank needs to do is go in binos and click where the smoke trail originated from.

Bad SPAA players have an advantage on bad CAS players, good CAS players have every advantage over good spaa players. They dictate when to engage, when it is in their favor, and they know the limitations. When you just spawn CAS and fly in a straight line over the field, when you immedietely pull up or do tight circles and bleed all your energy instead of extending to gain it, you are gonna die if the other team isnt jobbing.

Im terrible at CAS maybe mid at best, I never once died and thought it was BS at any BR, there was always something I could of done to avoid dying, i got too greedy, too lazy, bad sitautional awareness, bad aim, staying on target too long, the list is endless. If you cant even be concious of the mistakes you are making you end up making dumb threads like these and blaming anything but yourself.

I gave up on trying to get better at SPAA for the most part because its miserable being in a fishbowl where you cant even hide on most maps and end up dying to ground vics before you even engage planes, its not fun, the only ones worth playing are things like the gepard where you can actually defend yourself from ground vics or rat spaa that is small enough to hide. I played like 5 games in the OSA and it was like playing a horror game where im the victim hiding from monsters on the ground looking for a free meal, I dont even think I died to CAS once, not touching these land ship SPAA ever again.

[Beeschurger]

@Creastroy

You never gonna see the same camper around every corner without the ability to turn around in a ground vehicle.

If only planes had some kind of bird view of the battlefield that instantly neutralizes most ground obstacles that hinders LoS of ground vehicles.

Oh wait, they do.

@Creastroy

don’t see the reason behind a guaranteed kill by every guaranteed visual contact.

@Creastroy

You think it would be unfair to let go a target that have to be in your range or what?

Are these sentences in english?

@Creastroy

between 9.3

@Creastroy

What about those that are only 0.3 br below with only dumb weapons? And those full uptiered ones?

Why are you comparing capability of 9.3 CAS plane to 10.3 AA? This leads nowhere. Compare 10.3 AA to 10.3 CAS.

Base line is you are being dishonest, at worst theres ill intent behind it.

Im not comparing 9.3 AA to 10.3 CAS either.

@Creastroy

strela or OSA

Strela cant deal with stand-off weaponry because it gets outranged.

OSA cannot deal with low flying planes flying at close range due to launcher related dead-zones and slow turret rotation, not to mention it requires line of sight on target in order to hit it.

Both of them have weaknesses and strong points, just like any other vehicle.

@Creastroy

At the lower BRs they have stingers which… would take another eternity to explain why stingers can spoil attacks and bleed planes’ energy to death.

Do you struggle against AIM-9Bs? Do you think AIM-9B pulls too hard to be dodged? If not, then how are you struggling against stinger?

@Creastroy

If he made it, check the skills.

Seeing as i was up until recently playing mostly US 8.7, I dare to say i know what i am talking about if i say that my money is still on A-4B.

@Creastroy

do you mean instant kill?

Of who by whom?

Instant kill of tank by CAS plane? Yeah.

[Creastroy]

This is about 9.3-10.3 AAA, if we are talking about pantsir well, I’d say we should take a glance of 11.0-12.0

[Creastroy]

@Beeschurger

Oh wait, they do.

What’s the purpose of targeting pods and climb rate difference then xD

If only that BT5 in the example before has a weaponry that can pen leo2, oh wait, he does.

@Beeschurger

instantly neutralizes most ground obstacles

I like these guys, always get detected before having enough climb and die instantly to my OSA

@Beeschurger

Are these sentences in english

Does bro have literacy issues?

@Beeschurger

9.3 CAS plane to 10.3 AA?

Me checking 1.7 stuka to 2.7 m16, 2.7 il2 to 3.7 wirbel, 4.3 P63 to 5.3 Ost2
Don’t see the difference why not? Compression should be mentioned as always.

Al least we are considering 0.3 BR difference?

If we do compare 10.3 to 10.3, count how many maverick B carriers without targeting pods are there. Superior eyesight and a large display needed to see beyond that 6km line…

Then 9.3-7 to 9.7 stingers, 9.0-ish to impchapp… Should I say play before commenting? Harriers deal with stingers just fine but not for many others.

@Beeschurger

Both of them have weaknesses and strong points, just like any other vehicle.

And they are OP enough. idk how one can never feel that by playing…Just as one won’t say T80bvm should be with l2a4 for dm23 goes through weak spots.

@Beeschurger

Do you struggle against AIM-9Bs? Do you think AIM-9B pulls too hard to be dodged? If not, then how are you struggling against stinger?

This one’s pure trolling. Statement is clear, that stinger is not 9B.

@Beeschurger

I dare to say i know what i am talking about if i say that

How are we playing the same thing, air and ground, without the same outcomes bruh

@Beeschurger

Instant kill of tank by CAS plane?

Payed 800sp for it. You won’t try to prevent me for just a single kill after so much dodging and rocket spraying right =D

[Beeschurger]

@Creastroy

What’s the purpose of targeting pods

to provide optical zooms neccesary for aircraft, mostly at top tier, to equalize visual detection distances.

@Creastroy

If only that BT5 in the example before has a weaponry that can pen leo2, oh wait, he does.

you might as well talk about some random food recipe and it will be just as relevant as the BT5 example.

@Creastroy

I like these guys, always get detected before having enough climb and die instantly to my OSA

your stats with OSA dont match your claims.

@Creastroy

Does bro have literacy issues?

@Creastroy

F8F is the only thing with the capability at 4.7 stop acting like it’s common thing

@Creastroy

I don’t see the reason behind a guaranteed kill by every guaranteed visual contact.

@Creastroy

You think it would be unfair to let go a target that have to be in your range or what?

no, its just clear english isnt your first language and whatever point you might have had is getting lost in translation.

@Creastroy

Me checking 1.7 stuka to 2.7 m16, 2.7 il2 to 3.7 wirbel, 4.3 P63 to 5.3 Ost2
Don’t see the difference why not? Compression should be mentioned as always.

Comparing CAS planes to AA one whole BR higher?

By all means, lets also compare:
Imp. Chaparal 9.7 to 10.7 A-E6 Tram,
Imp. Chaparal 9.7 to 10.7 Mi-28A,
Imp. Chaparal 9.7 to 10. 7 G-Lynx
etc.

@Creastroy

Al least we are considering 0.3 BR difference?

i dont have issue with this, its not like some countries, like japan, have for example a 9.7 AA anyway so they have to uptier 9.3 vehicle.

@Creastroy

If we do compare 10.3 to 10.3, count how many maverick B carriers without targeting pods are there

Only mavericks B and only 10.3? F-4F (Germany), A-10A Early, A-7D, AJ-37.

At mere 0.4 BR higher at 10.7 (since were considering such small difference anyway), almost every country has some plane with guided weaponry.

@Creastroy

Superior eyesight and a large display needed to see beyond that 6km line

This is Mav B zoom at rougly 11km

same AA, same position, taken with Tornados targetting pod.

i dont think anyone needs “superior eyesight” to see beyond 6km with Mav Bs.

@Creastroy

Should I say play before commenting?

@Creastroy

Harriers deal with stingers just fine but not for many others.

@Creastroy

This one’s pure trolling. Statement is clear, that stinger is not 9B.

mate im not the one saying a 13G missile is difficult to dodge.

@Creastroy

And they are OP enough. idk how one can never feel that by playing

already posted about how your OSA stats dont match your statement.

@Creastroy

How are we playing the same thing, air and ground, without the same outcomes bruh

:)

@Creastroy

Payed 800sp for it.

so?

@Creastroy

You won’t try to prevent me for just a single kill after so much dodging and rocket spraying right

Warthunder is competitive game. Wouldnt be honorable to not give my all when facing enemies.

[Creastroy]

@Beeschurger

equalize visual detection distances

Yep this is right, so before pods visual detection is indeed unequalized

@Beeschurger

your stats with OSA dont match your claims

Ground collapsed 2/3 of the matches. See win rate. And for this account I brought them to 11.0-12.0. Works better at range than 2s6 anyways

@Beeschurger

lost in translation

English language failing to hold all the information density:
Or is it unwilling to understand idk

@Beeschurger

Imp. Chaparal

9.0 one

10.0 f105? ez
10.0 f4c? ez
10.0 su22 or 104G can flare me, though su17m2 can’t
10.0 F1 ez again
All 10.0 Frenchies? ez

And another lovely 9.0 to be played with impchapp

No dumb bomb carriers allowed

And if we have to stick to 9.3+ no matter how op things are

Ground team failed the 100 games. Tank obviously kills better.

For the gepard one. I’m not a stat-chasing streamer, I join the tank battles for fun, including blowing up T72s from their side… or at least trying to XD

@Beeschurger

i dont think anyone needs “superior eyesight” to see beyond 6km with Mav Bs.

As I’ve tried to make clear looong ago, if you are able to point to the position of an AA and yurns on the mav seeker, you are already having the information.

This is how a ground unit looks at the max range of mavB

Without UI

This is 24km. And is still far more distinguishable then what you see when seeking for a target at 6km away with 3rd person view. When cover is not considered.

Bro can almost attack pantsir from outside of the range with mavB only when you know the accurate position…

@Beeschurger

mate im not the one saying a 13G missile is difficult to dodge.

Fly a mig23bn or jaguar and let a friend shoot you 4 stingers. Use a plain map.

@Beeschurger

Wouldnt be honorable to not give my all when facing enemies

Looking at those who stays on the ground when a 2500sp Nuke is on the way

And when can we continue to CAP part

[Beeschurger]

@Creastroy

Yep this is right, so before pods visual detection is indeed unequalized

no, the visual detection range is equalized relative to the BR, or rather relative to range both CAS plane and AA can egage each other.

8.7 CAS does not need targeting pod to spot 8.7 AA at 10km because the 8.7 AA will never in thousand years be able to engage it beyond its absolute range.

@Creastroy

Ground collapsed 2/3 of the matches.

So? My team also collapses half of the games I play without me killing a single plane, yet i did ok so far in OSA.

@Creastroy

English language failing to hold all the information density:
Or is it unwilling to understand idk

no i think its geniunely your translation software mistranslating some words.

@Creastroy

9.0 one

10.0 f105? ez
10.0 f4c? ez
10.0 su22 or 104G can flare me, though su17m2 can’t
10.0 F1 ez again
All 10.0 Frenchies? ez

you picked some of the worst possible planes at 10.0 to be used for CAS. How about the 9.0 Chaparal countering the swiss hunter, A-4E or ayit? Hell, even alpha jet.

@Creastroy

you are already having the information.

Yes, if you count knowing where the enemy spawns are as having said information. Looking in general direction of the enemy spawn usually does the trick.

@Creastroy

And is still far more distinguishable then what you see when seeking for a target at 6km away with 3rd person view. When cover is not considered.

Why are you seeking target from distance of 6km without any sort of optic?

@Creastroy

Fly a mig23bn or jaguar and let a friend shoot you 4 stingers. Use a plain map

Dont need to. Between stinger carriers i played and swiss hunter i use as CAS for my 9.7 lineup (which is pretty much the stinger territory, or in words of Coyote Peterson “Im about to enter the sting zone”). I have pretty good idea how Stingers (or Mistrals or Iglas) behave.

@Creastroy

Looking at those who stays on the ground when a 2500sp Nuke is on the way

Thats purely player issue.

[noamax]

@Beeschurger

ayit

Ayit is a full br higher tho

[Beeschurger]

OH FU-