ok, so you know that the CLAWS and NASAMS have a worse radar right?
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As of early 2025, the Pantsir-SM-SV (the tracked variant of the upgraded SM model) is in the initial stages of deployment, with its production numbers unconfirmed and likely in the low-volume, trial-fielding stage.
- Status: The system was officially deployed by the Russian Army in March 2025 to high-risk regions, such as Kursk.
so russia get a spaa from 2025?
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Yet they’re more effective? Compared to buk of course
Number of kills is dependent on a number of things but average is a major factor.
Mainly fighting against the US or USSR means you’re more likely to be engaged by CAS. While they do bring CAS they don’t to the same extent.
Also I’d suggest not using a minor nation K/D rate to a major nation. From your stats the SAMP has a positive K/D rate at 98k battles. The Buk had .7 K/D rate at 450k battles. The IRIS is a better comparison to the Buk. Still supports your argument has the IRIS has a positive K/D.
I don’t think the Russians need a new SPAA especially with this one being geared towards anti munitions. Still gaps with other nations. As well as a general rebalance of CAS, coming from a CAS user.
that is because you are using a flawed metric
The large sample size only makes my point stronger. With 450,000 battles, the median is extremely stable—it represents the actual statistical reality of the hardware, not ‘bad luck.’ A 0.7 K/D over that many games is a performance ceiling. Also, saying it faces more CAS isn’t an excuse. Fighting CAS is the system’s only job. If an AA can’t maintain a positive K/D against the very targets it was designed to kill, how can you argue it’s effective?
The german 2A4 has roughly 9 times the spawns of the next most spawned 2A4, the swedish one. The other 2 are even lower, at ~4 and 2 million spawns.
Kills/Spawn are roughly within 10% of each other, where the differnce with the german TT one is probably down to the way bigger sample size.
Yes but by his argument that doesn’t matter
Russia with the BUK also has a bigger sample size then Italy with the SAMP/T
Buk (and pantsir btw) had fine stats until they introduced free spaa and free pantsirs started “stealing” kills.
70sp vs 700 - 1000sp. It’s super effective even when it’s 3 spaa die vs 1 plane die. And k/d pretty stupid for spaa when most deaths from ground vehicles.
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also russia tends to fight against the least CAS right now, because the nation spawning by far the most CAS is russia
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I agree that this is probably true, but I don’t think there’s more than a 10-15% difference. Most nations have very solid CAS right now + spam thier prem/squadron 12.3 plane.
Actually? Because that would be insane and put into question Gaijins entire reasoning for adding this new Pantsir
Nothing compares to the KH-38MT though atm
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a million spice bombs r better
way slower, i rather have a spice load to defeat then KH-38’s
After new spaa I didn’t have much problems with KH-38MT. They are still strong but they are manageable now.
Did they fix the bug when they were uninterceptable in 9/10 times? Most my encounters were like that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S7K4UFYOg4
Yeah. Most spaa stats become worse in December. I think it’s due free spaa.
French mains
Your argument about the ‘free Pantsir’ stealing kills makes no sense. The Buk’s missile is actually 200m/s faster than the Pantsir’s. If the Buk were truly effective, it would be the one reaching the target first and ‘stealing’ the kills from the Pantsir, not the other way around
SP cost is a teammate’s excuse for failure, not a metric of a vehicle’s effectiveness. We are talking about hardware efficiency, not team economy. If you need 3 Buks to kill 1 plane, that system is statistically inferior to a SAMP/T that maintains a positive K/D against the same (or better) targets. Also, if you claim most deaths are from ground vehicles, that applies to BOTH the Buk and the SAMP/T. If the SAMP/T still has a significantly higher median K/D despite facing the same ground threats, it proves the system is more survivable or more capable of clearing the airspace before it gets pushed. Data doesn’t lie—the SAMP/T performs better in the actual combat environment.
Comparing clone statistics and comparing different AA systems are DIFFERENT STATISTICAL TOPICS. You are mixing them up to avoid the facts.
Again: the efficiency of clones is about finding a median. The efficiency of unique AA systems is about hardware performance. These are DIFFERENT TOPICS.
True. I almost never saw French or Italian players placing 2 launchers next to their TADS and die from a single missile, or first spawning their spaa to die from a flanking tank.
At the same time the lobomtomized Russian (and German) players are regurarly doing this.
But ofc the BUK is not effective enough. Their players are so bad that I consider the BUK among the easier targets when I play cas.
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