Also you STILL have yet to provide a source for this information, as far as anyone is concerned not only could this be classified information but there is no context to these claims whatsoever.
The funny thing is, you’re the one who made the claim that they’re “better protected” first, so y’know, I could treat this as you simply shifting the burden of proof away from yourself xD
@Mulatu_Astatke I’m wasting my time, aren’t I? :p
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So you are providing information from the mid/late 1990s in the middle of development for the Challenger 2 and you want this to be taken into account for the modern upgraded and serviceable vehicles? Right
looks like someone needs source
and another 4026
i mean im not the one with the info about it furina has more about it than i do i will still bash out the horrible optimization of the challenger 2 but im not the one with the info on hand
you can find tons of 4026 info here and tons of argument
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This is how I know that I’m talking to a person who actually has no clue on CR 2s development cycle. Challenger 2s development had finished in circa ~1992 (it was supposed to show up for the 1993 Swedish Tank trials fyi…), its entry into service was post-poned only because its reliability was atrocious.
But hey, if you think the ~6 years it had spent in reliability stasis resulted in protection that exceeded even the “stretch” of SR(L) 4026, then feel free to prove so.
Admittedly, when I first saw the reply to my meme I was deciding on whether to ping you or not to let you have a crack (a bit selfish, but I didn’t want to waste my time). But then you took the decision out of my hands :P
But yes, you are wasting your time. Still funny to watch.
I’m not making that claim, that’s been stated by many tank operators who were deployed during the invasion of Iraq as well as many other credible sources since they’ve entered service. If this tank was so “badly optimized” as you claim how is it that more leopards with additional upgrades from the 2a5(S) have been lost in Ukraine when compared to Challenger 2s? I don’t know, could it be the fact that there were many claims that the Greeks were bribed to pick the leopard during the Hellenic trials? In every real combat scenario that we’ve seen the tanks you mentioned during those trials in they have been outperformed by the CR2, only having lost any due to foreign operators or friendly fire. Also you have still yet to provide any context to those images and the source of which they came from.
Should Great Britain get the whole US tree?
Should Great Britain get Egyptian Mirage 2000s?
Should Great Britain get all Canadian vehicles?
dont bring ukraine in the wt forums political speech not allowed, reminder that its in the rules
man is cope posting
They’ve also only fought against hand-operated RPGs and ATGMs, against which Challenger 2s protection excels (still less so than Leopard 2s but who cares at that point). The moment Challenger 2s entered combat against a peer opponent (i.e, someone who can bring more to the table than an infantry-man with an RPG from 1960s), they stopped performing nearly as “well”.
It has never occurred to you that Leopard 2s are used more than the Challies by the people you’re talking about, am I correct in my assumption? (Of course I am).
Oh cool, this again, I guess you’re not gonna mention how the bribes happened after the trials concluded, and their purpose was to convince the Greeks to buy more than initially planned? We just have to push this narrative because otherwise “muh chally 2 bad” becomes a fact that you cannot argue against.
Is this why the moment Chally 2 had stepped onto the Ukrainian battlefield, it threw its turret twice? And it’s been used so sporadically there’s almost no footage of it actively participating in combat?
Oh yea, totally, so we’re gonna forget about that Challenger 2 that blew up because a drone hit it?
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How is that even remotely political? I’m mentioning the combat history of a vehicle and how its armor has outperformed the so called “better protected” vehicles that he mentioned. I did not state any political views on the conflict whatsoever, the closest thing being how one vehicle is outperforming another.
The hell are you talking about. Political?
Okay, yea, no point in continuing this further.
should get india mirage and rafale
You do understand that these bribes came in before the final decision on the effectiveness of each tank right? Also so far 14 challenger 2s have been deployed in combat and 21 leopard 2a6s have been deployed (active in combat) 9 leopards have been lost and only 1 challenger (some reports say 2 but there is no concrete evidence). I dont think either tank is bad and I have no personal affiliation to the British military, Im trying to treat this as objectively as possible based on actual combat perfomance and not bits and scraps of documents from before the tank was even servicable.
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I’ll just quote someone else.
adding export stuff from india (su30mki, rafale) to russia or france (this option is no longer possible) > not adding them at all >>>>> giving them to UK
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Pleases go rant some where else with :)