AFAIK the mirrors was a different thing to the weight and are not used on patrol/in combat (honestly no idea where they got the idea for them from tbh as I dont see them on any pics or even in my model kit), but the meme is these are uranium mirrors because the weight came off with them ;)
The weight is the actual combat weight of the vehicle, gaijin was incorrect with 13t.
its literally just what the APDS would be if it was using the formula…
L21A1 is based on the Rhm 30x173mm APFSDS iirc, so should have slightly worse performance than the Bushmaster’s MK258?
edit: yeah a brief look at stuff from like 14 years ago (this, this, and this, though all the info is from the same person) and the Rhm offering was apparently one of several trialled darts for the rarden, beating the competition and becoming the L21A1 round. We’re probably going to struggle to get gaijin to accept this without half a dozen MoD documents explicitly confirming everything though.
Probably used reference photos from when it was first shown at DSEi or a particular year at Tankfest - it had mirrors at a few public demos.
There’s a few of instances where they add non-combat stuff to British vehicles, like the antenna on the Warrior turret that’s only on vehicles at BATUS, and IIRC there was one of the vehicles during a dev server (Ajax maybe?) that was modelled with the amber warning strobe that’s used as a hazard light when the vehicles are conducting live firing on ranges, not in combat.
It’s usually the result of following reference images from training establishments.
As far as I understood it with what little information exists, L21A1 is just PMC287 in a 30x170 case, and this is more or less exactly how we see the round behave. The speed of L21A1 is lower to begin with and decreases slightly faster owing to being 160 grams instead of 165 as in PMC287. MK258 seems to behave differently, I’m guessing the penetrator is shorter since given its other statistics it would be slightly superior to PMC287 if the rod were the same length.
ahh, I’m just getting my wires crossed then, think I was focusing too much on one of the listings I saw saying it was approved for the bushmaster ii and comparing there.
edit: L21A1 does lose 10g of mass and i’m not sure why such a slight difference in cartridge would lose 80m/s initial velocity?
another edit: adding this comparison image from Caernarvon02 himself:
I’m pretty sure the PMC287 in game is actually 165 grams, it just rounds to .17 kg on the stat card. As for why the mass is lower, I don’t know. The only available sources (Jane’s and Anthony William’s Autocannon, which probably got the info from Jane’s) state a mass of 160 grams for L21A1’s penetrator, so that’s what we’re gonna be stuck with. The muzzle velocity statistic also comes from this source. I’m not entirely sure why this is the case, but RARDEN may have a lower chamber pressure. The Rheinmetall press release mentioning L21A1 does explain that it is “adapted from existing sub-caliber technology” rather than just being PMC287 in a RARDEN case, so that might explain the minor discrepancies. We can however assume the rounds themselves are very similar.
Edit: we do have one other statement from Rheinmetall stating the penetration at 60 degrees obliquity at 1,000 meters is 50 mm of steel, while it’s 55 mm in game. Given that the projectile in game seems to be using PMC287, I think the discrepancy in mass could be explained by a shorter penetrator for L21A1, which would compound to impact its performance such that a decrease in penetration of ~9.1% is explicable. However, I think it would also be a little foolish to assume that the number given in the aforementioned article is the exact performance of the round.
but when we do it. notabug
even when we use government receipts, notabug
Since my original complaint was about bias in favour of Russa and against NATO it can’t really be helped that people make comparisons, it’s in the nature of the argument. But I agree, “now” is the most important, the PUMA being OP 4 years ago really doesn’t do much for the current state of the game.
I do however think things are becoming progressively worse, and I did not think the bias was as bad a couple of years ago as it is now.
Can we get the same option for the Mk.3 and DS as well?
It’s a little fun because I like CVR(T)s but it’s fragile and you have to get used to the recoil. Got slaughtered by some other light “tanks” this morning.
The APFSDS is better than i expected. Credit where credit is due.
BUT
this thing is still literally worthless for 8.3, its still going to be bad at 8.0. It probably wont do all too good at 7.7 either. It is simply too slow to ever accomplish anything ever
damn, its almost like it was meant to be at 8.0 until someone made an unbelievably bad decision
had to go to the wiki for the vehicle in game name for a bug report, they forgot to model the composite on the turret face
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/Q2lSKG8lePid
Yeah, this thing has no business being at 8.3. MAYBE if it had a stabilizer, but even with darts its facing far too high of BR opponents.
Pretty much every match I play there are multiple 9.0/9.3 BR Leopards on the other team. Bleh.
But not the tea table though.
Also, pretty disingenuous of Gaijin to do all this IMMEDIATELY AFTER the event. I’ve seen dozens of posts on Discord, Reddit, and here from people who said they skipped this because it was trash. They could have at least announced this at the start of the BR change thread.
OH this is wonderful, just realized that the cope cage blocks full gun depression. HOW LOVELY. There is only a TINY area directly forward (and rear) where the gun can actually fully depress.
Gee, thanks for still not allowing us to remove the cope cage. Much “appreciated”.
I rarely complain about “things like this” but this vehicle is an absolute joke. I am about ready to stop wasting my time spading this pile of garbage until they make the cope cage removable, and lower its BR.
What a clown show 🤡
Edit: Yeah no, I’m done. Let me know when this nonsense is corrected. I’m out 👋
More like “cope without gun depression cage”
Absolutely horrendous when other 8.0 light vehicles easily outperform this thing on everything.
This should not sit on the same BR where Warrior and Bradley sits
having APFSDS and thermal optics doesnt make it better than the original Scimitar when its slower and a lot easier to spot (120% visibility vs 84% visibility)
The APFSDS does nothing, still cant damage a T-62 from the rear. The cope cage is cosmetic, doesnt block RPGs. The FOV on the gunner sight is so narrow that the thermals are not an advantage. No stabilizer.
It’s essentially a big Weisel 1A4 that shoots 1 round per second
Awful vehicle at a BR where it fights incredibly better vehicles.
