Schwerer Panzerspähwagen Sd.Kfz.231 (8-Rad) (Serie 5.)

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I would like to suggest the Schwerer Panzerspähwagen Sd.Kfz.231 (8-Rad) (Serie 5.) heavy armored car, as a main TT counterpart to the Sd.Kfz.234/1. Furthermore it will add a mobile fun Armored car with the 2 cm KwK 38 L/65 which would fill the developmental gap between the Sd.Kfz.231 (6-Rad) (which i suggested befor) and the next generation, the Sd.Kfz.234.

After the rather limited successes of the first 3 Schwerer Panzerspähwagen Sd.Kfz.231 (6-Rad) which were based on commercial 6x4 Truck chassis, which were found to be underpowered and too heavy, but were enove as a stop gap and early comback into the Reconnaissance Armored trucks, allready suggested here (Sd.Kfz.231 (6-Rad) the next developmental step was a dedicated developmental 8 wheel based Armored Car with greater mobility which started allready in 1932.
After trails of the cheap start with commercial 6x4 chassis with an armored body it was allready clear that that was just a stop gap.
Requirements were set for a:
8x8 all steering
High speed forwards and reverse (same speed)
Less than 10 sec to change direction
and a turning diameter of just 10,5 m
The rolls were the same as for the prevois 6x4 and production started from 1936-1943 when it was replaced by the Sd.Kfz.234 series.

It was produced in 5 Series which incooperated improvements and simplifications such as increasing the frontal armor to 30-40 mm and usage of “Einheitssehklappen” (Universal Vision Slits) which are allready visible in game on Sd.Kfz.234, Sd.Kfz.251.

I am Suggesting the final and best Serie 5.
Which improved over the other Serie:
30mm Frontal armor (and 10 mm Spaced by 50 cm hull shield)
The 10 mm Hull shield was introduced in the Serie 2. In 1941 which still had only 14,5 mm frontal armor, while this protected from 8mm S.m.K from close up, it only protected from 12,7 mm ap ammo over range (duo to beeing angled) So similar to Schützen, this 10 mm Shield 50 cm from the hull was introduced, which offered effective protection against 12,7 mm ammo from even close up. After it was found that the lower hull was the main point of enemy AT fire.

With the Serie 3. the frontal armor was increased to full 30mm which offered protection against 2 cm Pzgr. L’Spur, however still in stock 10 mm shields were continued to be mounted as this offered additional protection against 37 mm round from the front from range. As well as a redesigne of Hull and turret, to incooperate full Einheitssehklappen with 30mm armor and external mantlet.

The previous internal mantlet, which was a mere vertical plate with internal plates to stop plashing, was replaced by a 30mm external mantlet, which removed the shot traps.

Further improvements with the Serie 5. was a new improved engine with 180 Ps at 3000 Rpm, the Büssig NAG GS 180 V8 Engine with 6+6xR Gears. And a armored cover over the back engine cooling grill.

It should be implemented with the 10 mm Shield as Serie 5.
The Shield could come as a Researchable modification, like Track Armor or an Armor Kit like on MBTs in game.

Series improvements list:(Click to show)

The Basic Serie 1. Started with full 14,5mm frontal armor, some with KwK 30 L/50/55.

With the Serie 2. having the Einheitssehklappen in the turret, as well as from 1941 onwards also reciving the Zusatzfrontplatte (Additional Frontal Plate) of 10mm 50cm spaced. (2 cm KwK 38 L/65 can also allready be found.)

Serie 3. Recived the redesigned hull (that was a bit higher to incooperate the Einheitssehklappe) and turret, that recived a bigger higher front with a new external Mantlet and overall the frontal armor was increased to 30mm (and also the 10mm extra.)

Series 4. and 5. mainly had small improvements, with mainly getting the new improved 180 PS engines. Armored cover over engine cooling grill at the back.

Pictures:(Click to show)

Serie 5.


Compared to earlier Series (look at the above mentioned Details)


This last one is special, as its a Serie. 1, but retro fitted with 10mm Shield and 2 cm KwK 38 L/65.

The Gun:
2 cm KwK 38 L/65 and Coax Mg 34
280 Rounds, 450 Rpm, 10 round mags.
-10° to +26° 360° travers at 25°/sec and higher.

Ammo would mainly consist of 3 Ap rounds and 2 He rounds.

Against Armored and unarmored ground targets the Pzgr. L’Spur o.Zerl (Ph.) ApI-T round. (148g 830m/s)

Against Armored and unarmored Ground and air targets the Pzgr. L’Spur .Zerl Aphe-T (Sd.) round, when shooting at air targets, generally only Self destructive ammo is allowed, the white phosphorus core of the first round had a tendency to self ignite in hot conditions of the desert, as such this mostly replaced it there (along with the simply empty one) (148g 2,4g Pent 830m/s)

Pzgr. 40 (Apcr) Only against heavily armored targets where the normal Ap rounds cant penetrate. (1050m/s)

and 2 types of He, 1 High capacity He round, the Sprgr. Erd o.L’Spur (Ground) with 11g Pent and the normal Sprgr. L’Spur with 6,2g Pent. (900m/s)

For more info on the ammo and more rounds available to the guns and other guns, feel free to take a look at my informatic topic about WW2 Tank, anti tank and other armarments of 7,92mm to 60 cm.

The Vehicle:
Schwere Panzerspähwagen Sd.Kfz.231 (8-Rad) (Serie 5.)
Crew: 4 (Driver, Gunner, Loader, Backwards Driver)
Weight: 8,6 Ton
Engine: Büssing NAG Gs 180 V8 180 Ps / 3000 Rpm
Speed: 90 Km/h (forwards and backwards)
Armor: Front 30-40mm Side: 8mm Back: 10mm

Source: Sd.Kfz.231 (8-Rad) Manual
Munition der 2 cm Waffen
E-Bay Picture Auction / private gallery
Thomas L.Jentz schwere Panzerspähwagen Sd.Kfz.231 (8-Rad) and 223


A wonderfull short of the Production of Serie.5 231s

+1 Fantastic vehicles, so far ahead of their time. Would be good to see it foldered after the Puma so that it can Scout properly as a reconnaissance vehicle. Somewhere BR 2.3-2.7?

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The 234/2 is going to be Br. 3.7 (and i hope rank III)
This wont fit after it, rather befor it. But Rank 2 would be nice.

Ah I didn’t know the 234/2 was going up. Yes if there’s space it should go prior to the 234/2, or they could be foldered to reduce research steps. I see it as being analogous to the SARC MkVI (2pdr), or the AB 43, around the 2.3-2.7 BRs.

For me the main thing is avoiding Rank 1 so that it can get Scouting. Too many historical recce vehicles are stuck in Rank 1 and so can’t scout, eg;

  • Pz.38(t) n.A.
  • Sd.Kfz. 140/1
  • Tetrarch I
  • Daimler Mk II

However, my wishes for Scouting reform can be discussed elsewhere!

Yeah, definitely in agreement with other commenters here that this would be great at low Tier II so it could have scouting. Frankly most of the German armoured cars are undertiered and would be better off a few BRs higher and the next tier up (Puma especially is still viable as a first spawn vehicle in the 4.s and really ought to be Tier III - the same is true for the Chaffee on the Allied side). It would be great to see, and even better at an appropriate BR where it can fulfill its IRL purpose of scouting.

I absolutly love the designe and the 231 in general.

More Late Pictures:(Click to show)


More Early Pictures (And surviving):