Sabra Mk.1 Bugs and Inaccuracies

Dev Server Firebirds General Discussion - Dev Server
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Heyo Y’all!
Here to make a main thread to talk about the inaccurate state of the upcoming Sabra Mk.1!
Here are the things you’ll notice right out of the gate, and the bug reports attached to them:

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1A: Lower Front Plate Add-on Composite Armor is visible, but not modeled.
Should be easy to fix and very likely to be added by the time it comes to the live server.
Bug Report: (Community Bug Reporting System) (Status: Fixed)

Images associated (click to show)

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1B: LFP Composite Add-on armor is too thin.
Relatively easy fix, the thickness of the armor should be increased by ~150%.
Ingame: the LFP Composite armor is 40mm thick, when it should be ~100mm thick.
Bug Report: (Community Bug Reporting System) (Status: Open)

2: Turret Traverse (Vertical and Horizontal) too low.
Ingame: Currently it’s copied from the Magach 7C, when from my understanding it should be similar to that of the Merkava Mk.3’s turret traverse rates. Currently 24.0°/s (Aced and Spaded), when it should be more similar to the Merkava Mk.3’s 34.0°/s.
But reports: (Yet to be made. Linked and edited in when made.)

3: Missing LWS modification.
Ingame: it only has a Laser rangefinder modification, without an LWS attached to it (this is also a bug with the Magach 7C)
But report: (Community Bug Reporting System) (Status: Fixed)

New sub bug, now has a LRF & LWS/LRF modification instead of just one: Community Bug Reporting System (Status: Accepted)

4: Gunner Thermals copied from Magach 7C.
Ingame: Currently Generation 1 Gunner Thermals when they should be newer and either Generation 2 or 3.
Bug report: (Yet to be made. Linked and edited in when made.)

5: Gunner Optic Zoom Copied From Magach 7C.
It should be superior given it’s a more advanced gunner sight.
Ingame: fixed at 8.0x zoom, should be higher or around 5.0x-12.0x
Bug report: (Community Bug Reporting System) (Status: Fixed)

6: Commander Sight Obstructed.
Currently the commander sight is likely placed within the new turret for some reason, should be an easy fix. Regardless the commander sight lack thermal vision and can’t move horizontally, meaning it wouldn’t get much use by any players anyway.
Bug report: ( Community Bug Reporting System ) (Status: Fixed)

Images Associated (click to show)

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7: Side Skirts made of incorrect material.
This Bug is inherited from the Magach 7C, which also has this issue.
Ingame: Currently they (the ones that aren’t here 4 composite skirts near the front of the vehicle) are made of structural steel, when they should be made of RHA.
Bug report: (Community Bug Reporting System) (Status: Open)

8: Smoke Grenade Mortar Visible, but Un-usable.
This Bug is also inherited from previous Magachs and Sho’ts alike.
Ingame: The Mortar is visibly modeled, but can’t be functionally used at this time.
Bug reports: (Yet to be made. Linked and edited in when made.)

9: Turret armor visual models not present on the damage model.
Ingame: there are multiple different visual features modeled on the Sabra Mk.1’s turret that aren’t present ingame. This includes the rear turret basket, the metal/armor on the gun barrel in front of the breech, and a small piece of structural armor behind the add-on composite armor for the turret.
Bug report: Community Bug Reporting System (Status: Fixed)

Images associated (click to show)

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If you make a bug report for these issues or find any other issues, please let me know and I’ll update this post to include them!

Furthermore I’d like to take this quick opportunity to make a quick poll on the topic of this tank:
What BR should the Sabra Mk.1 sit at?

  • 9.7 (Currently 9.7 on Dev)
  • 10.0
  • 10.3
  • 10.7
0 voters
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Message reserved for edit history of main post:

Main Post Edit #1: Included Bug Report for Missing LFP Add-on Armor.
Main Post Edit #2: Added Bug #7 (Side skirt incorrect material) and Bug #8 (Smoke mortar missing).
Main Post Edit #3: Added Bug #9 and its bug report (missing damage model additions that are visually modeled) as well as supplying a new (and accepted!) bug report to Bug #5.
Main Post Edit #4: Added status “Accepted” to Bug Report #1 (LFP Armor), #6 (Commander Sight Obstructed), #9 (Damage model missing features). Added bug report & link to report for Bug #6 (Commander Sight Obstruction).
Main Post Edit #5: Added bug report link to Bug #3 (Missing LWS).
Main Post Edit #6: Fixed typo and added a goofy lil Sabra image at the top :P
Main post edit #7: Changed status of Bug report #3 (Missing LWS) from open → fixed. Added sub bug to it as well with bug report link and changed status from open → accepted.

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10.0 at minimum because the Turkish M60 AMBT is also 10.0.

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The Turkish M60 AMBT has loads of differences between this thing. The ones that standout are the longer 120mm reload, the superior engine, and CITV with a 25mm grenade launcher to deal with light vehicles (the Sabra loses the .50 Cal the Magach 7C used).

They’re a bit hard to compare but if you’d like I can make a fully detailed list of differences between them.

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Well, yeah, but if you look at the 120mm M60 upgrades in-game, they’re all 10.0-10.3

The Sabra is going to be fine, assuming Gaijin properly models it, at 10.0.

The biggest issue is that we have nothing to go with it.

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Ayit and Merkava Mk.2D pair well at 9.7.
And at 10.0+ it gets the Imp. Chaparral to pair with it.
However yes there’s a massive void in the tech tree of available vehicles, which luckily the Sabra variants will help fix. Ofc some extra Namer variants and other light tanks like the TAM 2CIP would be wonderful additions to pair with this!

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The biggest issue with Israel is the lack of quality content each patch along with the lack of fixing bugs on existing vehicles.

I have two posts about the Namer being wrong on top of a bug report about the door, but neither has been touched by Gaijin. They haven’t even looked at them.

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“Bug report rejected. Reason: Israeli”
Pretty much sums up how it is or at least feels most of the time. Meanwhile if a bug report to nerf something shows up they’ll waste no time I applying it, as seen with the Namers weight or Chally Mk.3’s HP/Ton

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And what’s fun (not) is when someone bug reports something which results in a Nerf. They happen almost constantly.

For example, they just nerfed the Sholef’s armor on the DEV server.

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25mm with 36mm of HEDP pen.

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Ah right thanks mb. Edited.

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the merkava 2D has been removed from the shop so it isnt a option for people who haven’t previously bought it

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the post about SLERA for the merkava 4 exists for how long? 2 years?

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It definitely needs to stay 9.7 or it will just be another oddball br tank that has no lineup to surround it

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It’s a whole new form of armor that needs to be modeled, and currently gaijin perceives the merkavas to be preforming well. If the reload buff doesn’t make them competitive, then gaijin will end up giving it SLERA and revisit its armor, no doubt about that. They’re just trying to keep everything balanced for now, or at least it seems that way to me.

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Does anyone have a Primary source or Secondary Sources for the Sabra Mk.1 having a LWS? I understand the Magach 7C which the Mk.1 upgrade is based off of had a LWS, however if gaijin denies this report for the Sabra Mk.1 LWS I made and require the use of sources then I would love to have access to them.

I was also wondering if anyone has sources pertaining to the turret traverse speeds or the gunner thermal generation, which are part of the BAZ FCS if I’m not mistaken. This should mean it has turret traverse speeds similar to that of the Merk Mk.3, no?

Regarding the gunner sight: upon a closer look the gunner sight barely resembles that of the Merkava Mk.3’s. Given the tank upgrade was made around the 2000s I assumed it would be a 2nd or 3rd generation thermal imager if it wasn’t the Mk.3’s sights, however I still can’t find any sources specifying what thermal imager it uses exactly.
Visually it bears little resemblance to any thermal imager in the Israeli tree currently.
Sabra Mk.1 Gunner Sight: Screenshot_295
Magach 6B Gal Gunner Sight:
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Merkava Mk.3B Gunner Sight:
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Merkava Mk.3D Gunner Sight:
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Merkava Mk.4B Gunner Sight:
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As seen here, the housing of the Gunner sights most resembles the Mk.4s, however it still has its differences, while the 6B Gal (Gal Batash as well) use nearly identical looking sights, however the doors that protect the sights are different as well (and this is historically accurate as seen here:
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Anyone able to clear up what sight it uses exactly? Much appreciated!

Edit: Currently it uses the exact same thermal stats as the Magach 7C, when it should have a much different Sight all around.
Here’s a gif I made comparing them, showing that they have the exact same stats:
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Special sources are not really needed, in my opinion.
All photos of the Sabra show the RALM/02 LWS on the turret. Here are a couple of useful photos:

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Also:

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Perfect, thanks! Should work just fine.

(However the sight issue still remains, if anyone has sources for the sights specifications or even can identify the sight it used that would be very much appreciated)

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Also, I wanted to point out that the interior modules are based on a base M60, while the Sabra is at the very least an M60A1 (often mentioned as an M60A3). The ammo position and racks is wrong right now.

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https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/swDjlwzZycTH
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/FNdQSXrlJqon
Likely won’t change, at least not for awhile…