F-86A-5 : Ok this is undertiered. Let’s move it up by 0.3 and-- oh no, now it faces things like F-104A, early MiG-21s and MiG-19s??? Who could’ve guessed that ? 😱
F-86F-25 :
Oh this definitely undertiered. Scooch it up by 0.4. There that’s perf— oh no, now it has to face even more uptiers to face early MiG-21s and other supersonics that it can never catch? Shocker! 😱
F-86F-2:
Oh yeah. Definitely undertiered. What’d happen if we just-- oh no, it has to face the F-4C Phantom and other afterburning supersonics??? Well that just sounds like a fair match don’t you think?
You see where this is going?
This is so dumb I’m not even going to address it.
You absolutely should look at the matchmaker considering that the majority of games you play will be uptiers.
Yes. It’s by far one of the best 8.0 planes, and it never should’ve gone down to begin with. The F-86A should be 8.3, along side the Mig-15. Everything else should be balanced accordingly. Is it really fair for it to be at the same BR as the vampires, meteors, and only 0.3 higher than the Tunnans to F-84Gs?
Undertiered: J-7D, J35XS, Mig-15bis ish, Lim-5P/Mig-17PF, and a few more
Overtiered: F-4J UK, Vampires, Meteors, Me-163/Ki-200, Mig-23BN, (soon to be) Q-5A and L, F-104S ASA, F-104G and S
Every single example you gave will be either op if it went down or garbage if it went up. Aka compression. Put each one up against -1 and +1 BR aircraft and the problems become obvious.
The J-7D is roughly equal to a Mig-21Bis so it would be fine at 11.0.
The Mig-15bis ish is a very slightly worse mig-15bis, so it would have no issues at 8.3.
The Mig-17PF is a direct upgrade to the Mig-17 at the same BR.
The J35XS is too low for 10.3 when compared to the BRs of something like the T-2, F-1, F-104J, or even A-5C.
The F-4J UK is worse than any other 12.0 plane, and it wouldn’t be OP at 11.7.
The Vampires and Meteors are both overtiered at 8.0 because of their slow speed and poor acceleration.
The Ki-200/Me-163 are 7.7/8.0 planes at 8.7 for no reason. The standard Me-163 is 8.0, and it is nearly identical, and not OP.
The Mig-23BN is worse than the F-104A, Mig-19, F-100, and the Q-5s (9.7 planes)
The Q-5s are subsonic at sea level with no missiles, and gaijin is pushing them to 10.0. The A doesn’t even have a proper rwr.
The F-104S asa is an 11.3 plane at 12.0. Compare it to the properly placed J-8B and you’ll find that they are equal.
The F-104S’s and G’s are worse than any other 11.3/11.0 plane, and should be adjusted accordingly.
There’s also the 11.7 tornados which are no different than the 11.3 tornados in air RB.
Obviously compression is an issue, but that doesn’t mean stuff isn’t overtiered/undertiered.
I’d say it has a slight edge over the bis but now it starts facing SARH fighters more often. It’s only advantage is high climbing and hammering down which now becomes impossible. I hate where this fighter’s at currently too but uptiering makes it much more vulnerable
Same problem as the bis. Starts facing 9.3 supersonics.
Still faces Mach 2 capable supersonics and the occasional R-60 slinger like the Yak-38. Both versions suffer.
Goes back to the same problems it had before: fighting SARH slingers and all aspect IR missiles with only 12 flares. Uptiering could work if they reverted the FM nerfs
Drop them there and they start facing props way more often. So no.
Partially agree. Still wouldn’t change the fact that it’d suffer as much as any other Phantom even in a 0.3 uptier
It’s far faster than the Sabres, CL-13s and MiG-15s it’ll face in downtiers. Compression
But if you keep them where they are they outaccelerate MiG-15s, CL-13s and Sabres without even trying hard. Compression again
Same problem as the F-4J (UK) even if you moved it down with the added problem of it facing 10.3s and 10.7s with Aspides. The J-8B is in the same boat.
So then they start facing 10.0s and 9.7s most of which they’ll outaccelerate. See Q-5 problem above
All Tornados suffer irrespective of where they are.
See? In every case compression rears its ugly head. We need to stop blaming so and so fighter for where it is and collectively ask gaijin for decompression. These jets will be miserable to play until then and these kind of discussions will go nowhere
The Sabres are probably one of the most comfortable jet families in the game to play at that tier. Their combination of great speed and agility give them options against practically everything they fight, and certainly much better than their contemporaries.
That’s the part that sticks out to me. So many people are crying out that if they moved up, they’d suffer from facing the 9.3+ powercreep, as though that doesn’t hold true for literally every other jet at the BR range, most of whom are catagorically worse than the Sabres.
The F-86-F2 is at the same BR as the Mystere IV, for reference, a plane that has literally zero advantages over it, and is even worse in the same uptiers that people claim “balance” the Sabre.
Seriously, name any other fighter in that BR range that is competitive with the Sabres and/or does better in uptiers than the Sabres, and isn’t a MiG-15/17. I’ll wait.
Why do you think the F-86/MiG-15/MiG-17 deserve special treatment over their peers? They were the STRONGEST jets at their OLD BRs BEFORE downtiering. :)
The only treatment needed here is decompression. Go back to the tech trees and put them up against lower and higher BR fighters they’d face in battles if they were uptiered or downtiered and see what happens before commenting again or you’re wasting everyone’s time.
Already addressed you and @Ion_Protogen. READ. READ. READ
Bollocks. Why the hell Sabre and MiG-15 need special treatment while there are plenty of other early jets like Mystere, Venom, Swift, Scimitar rot in [F-104A/C and T-2] hell?
It is just extremely ridiculous that you bring ‘we shouldn’t nerf them because it is ridiculous to face supersonic’ theory only for biasing ‘the sinned twins’.
Decomps?
I think you don’t know what ‘decompression’ is.
Put this exact argument to someone who flies 7.3 and 7.7 jets and has to face the Sabre and MiG-15 and see what happens. Why are you looking at jets and BRs based on your own personal biases instead of compression as a whole which is the real problem here? I hate where the J-7D and F-5C are right now. The F-5C feels inferior compared to the J-7D but I’m still looking at the problem objectively instead of favoring one aircraft over another.
Increasing the number of BRs and distributing the fighters accordingly duh? Prepare better replies than weak insults
Your defence about Sabre/MiG-15 sounds opposite to that.
If you really don’t want to get your F-86 sees MiG-21F or F-104A
Then, in a decompressing way, extend the top BR into something larger than 14.0
and place the current 9.3 supersonics higher than now.
Then why the hell are you defending F-86, which is one of the nastiest 8BR jets that creates another compression over compression?
This makes no sense.
You don’t get it? The problem is these two were the ONLY jets given this treatment. YES they will suffer if they go up, just as EVERY PEER OF THEIRS DOES WHO DID NOT RECEIVE A DOWNTIER LIKE THE MIG15/F86 DID
Do you really not see how you are directly implying it when you defend the mig15/f86 downtiers and say “but oh my god what would happen if they saw 9.3?” as if their PEERS don’t STILL have this issue. You’re also aware that downtiering stuff causes compression so idk why you don’t just realize the solution here is to FIRST uptier the MiGs and F86s BACK to where they BELONG and THEN DECOMPRESS so that ENTIRE BRACKET suffers less as a result.
So after all this you agree with me that compression is a problem and then still harp on about the Sabres and MiG-15s 🤦
Where am I defending any one jet? Read my response to Ion Protogen. In every case I point out how compression is a serious problem regardless or moving up or down in BR.