Russian Domination in Ground Realistic Battle in top tier

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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Hey everyone, to begin with, this is the first topic I write about and I am not English so there will certainly be mistakes.

I’ve seen a lot of “Russian bias” posts, but it is not exactly what I am refering to talking about “Russian Domination”. By the way I don’t want to focus on Russian’s Tanks but more generally on the whole nation especially at top tier.

Indeed, I think that it is a fact that Russian’s main have access to the best vehicles in all categories (except maybe for the tanks, it is debatable).

The first overpowered vehicle compared to the one of other Nations is the Pantsir-S1. This SPAA is indisputably the best in the whole game with a missile reach up to 18km (11miles) and 30mm auto-cannons. For reference, this is the range of other Nation SAM (XM1069 10km, FlaRakRad / ItO 90M / Tor-M1 12km (=7.5miles)). With this vehicle the airspace is basically closed for all ennemies wich lead to a new problem.

Air dominance in Ground Battle… Russian’s Mains dominate the sky…
They have access to 4 amazingly performing CAS planes (Su-25, Su-25T, Su-25K and Su-39) among which, two are directly available for GE.
By the way, the problem is the same for helicopters with (Ka-52, Mi-28N/NM, Ka-50).

The next point is the russian’s tank. Many people already reported some case of bias which I would prefer to refer as “powerful features” such as less spalling when shooted from the side (this is the only one really verifiable as far as I know).

All those point led to something that I’d like to know: Do Gaijin know that Russia is overperforming at Top Tier? After looking at the winrate of russian vehicles, I found that they have an approximately 50% winrate whereas when I do the calculation with the game I’ve played I get a way higher percentage.

That’s all, thank you if you read all this topic, and don’t hesitate to correct if I made mistakes or if you disagree with it so that I can acknowledge new opinion.

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As much as I was on-board with calling Pantsir OP during the dev server, it physically cannot hit targets consistently beyond 7km. Airspace is only closed with TOR-M1, and even then that one is still dodgable.

F-14B, Mirage 2000 5F, & Tornadoes run circles around the chronically subsonic CAS you mentioned.

Time to address Ka-50 in a long form manner.

As much as Ka-50 was OP years prior, today it’s a shell of a once OP vessel.
The incorrect thermals were the first to go, since when I first learned of it it no longer had thermals.
Next was the first Vikhr nerf, I forgot what it specifically did.
After that we saw the S-13s leave, and they left after my Carpathians match in my M1A1 where I shot 3 of them down.
Another Vikhr nerf this time to range, 8km max.
Vikhrs were re-buffed to 10km on static target.
& most recently, Beam Riding became simulated, turning the Ka-50 into a Cobra with longer range ATGMs.

Now people are on about speed, which Rooivalk missiles share a similar speed to. And yes, one ATGM per shot can take down one SAM shot… if you’re spotted. Big if since there’s no thermal aid like there is with all other 11.0 helicopters.

Yes, Ka-50 was once OP, it was once 10.0. I know first hand facing them in my American Peten in heli PVP. In-fact, I exclusively hunted them down in my Peten. I even learned the weaknesses of Vikhrs because of their power, weaknesses that are no longer shared among players.
Yes, it has fast 8km range missiles, but it doesn’t have thermals. Yes, a skilled Ka-50 pilot can take down a jet coming toward them IF they’re manually adjusting the missile in flight.
However, good pilots do not make the platform itself OP.

There is an issue. Skilled players are playing Soviets, just as they have Germany 9.0 so many years ago, and America top BR a year or so back.
BVM is over 2 years old. People were killing them with ease back in 2021. Nothing about BVM changed, all their characteristics are still the same, but they’re allegedly dying less today than in the past.

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It is honestly funny how overpowered Russia is at top tier. I’ve got the Tiger UHT yesterday (GE’d PARS 3LR) and I’ve gotten maybe 2 good games out of it.

I die before I can make any sort of difference because of Pantsirs. My CAS jets die before they can even do anything because of the MiG-29/Pantsir/TOR combinations. My team dies because T-series are carried by myriad dozen hand-holding buffs/errors in game’s implementation of them (a match before I made this post, a BVM survived a direct ammunition hit, only thing damaged on him was a fuel tank…), or they get simply swarmed do death, cus everyone and their mother has 150 backups for the BVMs and Ka-52s.

Situation at top tier is quite frankly horrible. The UHT doesn’t hold a candle to Ka-52/Mi-28NM in game ending potential simply because it has to cope with Pantsirs being around, which usually game end it before it can even spot them in return.

The simple fact is, due to how overpowered Russia has been for a long time, it gave its players ample time to build huge line-ups and now there is not a single game where there isn’t at least 3+ Ka-52 and Su-25s in the air at any given time.

It is currently impossible to get consistent winstreaks against Russia at top tier, it simply isn’t. Either Gaijin does a complete 180 and their vehicle adding strategy and ignores Russia for the next 4 - 5 years, or the end game will remain a Russian playground until War Thunder dies of old age.

NATO SPAA is simply too weak to deal with the spam, counter-CAS jets have to dance in the air because of Pantsir/TOR spam (i.e multitasking themselves). The tanks are quite frankly outmatched in the current meta where close-quarters duels are favoured, and even during long range engagements you are still at a disadvantage because of your low-resolution thermals and Russian armour capabilites (which are currently overtuned to a T).

At this point NATO needs to be massively focused upon by the devs to bring even a semblence of parity, we unironically need 2020s SPAA for them to deal with Russia (such as IRIS-T SLM and CAMM). We actually need very recent MBT models with armour to force Russian players to actively aim for weakpoints. There no longer exists a time where Germany or US alone can face Russia, they need to be teamed together to offer even a fight to the horde. Worst part? US is actively teamed together with Russia… yeah.

You wanna know what the winning condition for the West is? Teaming them up with China. No, I am not kidding. Only when China is on the opposite team to Russia’s, is when that side has an actual chance at winning the match. That’s ridiculous.

To put it bluntly, top tier is really just Russia. No other nation comes close to them in terms of overall capability. Germany offers the best non-Russian helicopter, but it cannot do anything because of Russian and Chinese SPAAs. US has the best non-Russian line-up, but it cannot do anything with Russian CAS around. Sweden has the best non-Russian SPAA, but it cannot do anything when there’s a SPAM of eastern helicopters.

Russia is by far the most powerful nation at top tier, and even combining all other nations together, they barely stand a chance at winning.

edit: I must add that my post aged like shit, Gaijin is already adding a better fighter jet to Russia.

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Is this any surprise? We can’t even get the correct weapons for most of our non-russian vehicles. Tanks that are missing proper anti-era rounds. Aircraft that are missing HARMs (which would instantly delete russian SPAA). Etc Etc ETc…

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I love playing Top Tier Italy and having to face Russian Magic armor tanks every game so fun so very fun.

italy
italy1803×1306 271 KB

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So many people have flocked to USSR toptier ground is because they are so much more fun to play because of how stupid survivable they are compared to any other nation at the moment.

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Yep. No one have them.

And US, and german, and all others, cause Soviets got their own ARMs

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Many of their applicable ARM’s don’t have seekers that would work against tactical targets since they were designed to be much longer range specialty ordnance / airframes (Kh-28 is practically limited to a pair on the Su-17 / -24, Mig-27 derivatives. Kh-51 is mounted on Late Su-27 / MiG-29’s, the Kh-58 is basically carried by the same airframes as the Kh-28) that would go after Strategic radars and leave large gaps in BR coverage. Which was the entire point of the Dev response in the Q&A. That cast dispersions on their addition.

Yes, we’re considering this type of missile. Unfortunately, there are lots of problems and actual data of their efficiency is controversial. Anyway, such missiles require a lot of effort in collecting data, and possibly specific simplification in their in game mechanics. For example, we know that none of the massively used ARM produced in the 1960s -1980s were not capable of properly detecting and effectively hitting the SAM SPAAG often used in War Thunder. Their targets were mainly such systems as S-75/S-300/Hawk/Patriot, with uncertain efficiency though. Nonetheless, we do consider ARM as a possible balancing media of close-support aircraft against missile SPAAGs.

Then you run into the issue of advanced ARM’s like the HARM, ALARM, AARGM, AARGM-ER etc. That would make things very much not fun since they have a number of advanced features (e.g. Self-Protect / Pre-Brief, INS/GPS, Loiter, MMW terminal homing, etc.) that if modeled at all realistically would result in making anything with a radar dead in short order.

It also doesn’t help that practically every single western design newer than the F-100 could carry at least a pair of Shrikes (AGM-45) or better, which happen to outrange (16km) everything short of the Pantsir at this point and could be seen as low as 8.7 with the A-4E.

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lol They’re no more survivable than Sweden or USA.

@FurinaBestArchon
Your post aged poorly cause USA’s getting an even better fighter than what Soviets are getting next major update.
Pantsirs still can’t hit anything that isn’t flying straight at them.

War Thunder already has parity currently. The fact you want modern Soviet SPAA alongside modern other SPAA is hilarious.
Non-Soviet CAS is the best in WT and has been for a year now, untouched by anyone.

The fact you think Russia has the best military equipment ever made and western equipment is all inferior is something else.

You love Soviet equipment far too much and defend them far too much.

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The issue has always been getting the F-16 to the Merge and not getting 3rd partied in order to take advantage of the performance edge, the R-73’s sheer ability at ultra short range is going to complicate that further since there is now a much greater need to respect the sensor nose in order to avoid being launched on due to the HMD and very large gimbal limit.

Not unlike the MiG-21 vs the F-4E or MiG-23 vs the F-5E / F-8E.

You still need to point the nose in their general direction to deploy ordnance regardless of what it actually is, sure you can avoid missiles but that won’t help kill SPAA without teammates to take advantage of the distraction.

It’s not about being the strongest, but having by far the most flexible lineup and so can be tailored to suit any possible situation far better than any other lineup.

Of what is actually modeled and in game I would have to agree that by design many things are anachronistic or outright missing and much of what would help reflect reality aren’t modeled, and probably won’t be for balance reasons especially if Service dates were taken into account for BR placement.

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Having been on dev server, being off afterburner when in front hemispheres of F-16s & Mig-29s will prove valuable.
Bomb drop takes 1 second, 2 if slow.
That’s not enough time for a Pantsir missile to hit, even if they launch at the start of your turn, cause you’ll be back to perpendicular before the missile gets to you with a laser on their forehead.
Soviets have 1 MBT, an okay light tank, a mid SPAA, a good air superiority fighter, inferior CAS, and on-par helicopter.
Sweden has that but with a meta light tank & two more meta MBTs.
USA has that but with an extra MBT, and meta CAS.
USA & Soviets have an equal amount of please don’t use 11.3s if you can avoid it.
T-80U & M1A1 HC are twins, and it saddens me that people complain about facing either.

Realism doesn’t mean imbalance.
Service dates don’t equate to realism.
Best wisdom you could adopt.

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So much copium you drink …

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That’s not what copium means.
Copium means you’re coping due to stresses occurring in your life.
The statement you’ve responded to is me at worst bragging, at best explaining my excitement and perspective.

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time to grind soviet to see if ammo disapering and surviving shots visible when playing t80s

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Which means you aren’t using all available thrust so are going to be performing worse than you could be, also due to where comparative airframe advantages lie that further constrains your options if you actually want to fly to said airframes strengths.

With what laser? Many of the US options that could see a Pantsir (in the 10.7~12.7 bracket, let alone a US 11.7 lineup) straight up don’t have access to SALH ordnance or targeting pods ( even though a number should, the F-4E for example is missing access to the PAVE Spike and / or PAVE Tack, A-10A Late / F-14A is missing LITENING II ) so are limited to Electro Optical or CCIP / CCRP delivery and as such are practically forced to employ low altitude ordnance delivery so they are absolutely at risk of missiles and cannon fire, it doesn’t help that the Pantsir doesn’t set of the RWR and a lack of thermals makes VID / locating launches at a distance hard to do safely.

And that ignores ordnance like the ERDL Walleye / GBU-15 / AGM-112 and secure datalink pods (AXQ-14 (F-4E / F-111 / F-15E) & AWW-13 (A-7 / A-6 / F/A-18 )) that would provide post-release control and that doesn’t even consider other A2G ordnance that the new F-16C-50 (2006) should be able to carry (JDAM, JSOW, CBU-87 / -100, / -103 / -105 etc).

As outlined above, the majority of options are missing significant stores options depending on the Lineup you are running, you may even be limited outside the A-6E TRAM which is a $70 USD premium.

I’m talking purely about missing / undermodeled capabilities which are obviously lacking for balance reasons, let alone absent airframes like the A-4M, F-111, A-6(Tech Tree), AV-8B, F-15E, F/A-18. or ordnance like the AGM-176 and -179 let alone yet to be implemented categories like Cluster bombs and Anti-Radiation Missiles.

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Well, night battles not existing means you just hover over Pantsir 8km up, and drop a Maverick every now and then.
F-14B* isn’t missing anything.
F-18 & F-15E require 12.3, possibly 12.7 before addition.
That’s like saying we’re missing Su-27.
Also I was talking about Pantsir BRs, which is 11.0 upward as 10.7 ground isn’t a serious thing.
Anti-Rad isn’t necessary currently due to CAS currently out-ranging all SPAA to begin with.
Cluster bombs aren’t needed at all, just a would be fun addition.

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Your post aged poorly cause USA’s getting an even better fighter than what Soviets are getting next major update.

And this totally invalidates Russia getting a better jet? Typical whataboutism. Besides that - best BVR capability, best close-in capability, whilst the SMT is inferior in a gun-only dogfight, w/R-73 it can deal with F-16s, but now try pitying other top tier jets against it without F-16s flight performance or without R-73s… womp womp.

Pantsirs still can’t hit anything that isn’t flying straight at them.

/me actually having the Pantsir and knowing that isn’t true. The hillarious part is that I know you will bring up the TOR M1 instead, but I tested it with a friend of mine and you can dodge it as well so…

War Thunder already has parity currently. The fact you want modern Soviet SPAA alongside modern other SPAA is hilarious.

Another typical tactic of “wow, I can’t believe you actually like Russia even though you always speak out against Russia!!!” of yours, huh?

You love Soviet equipment far too much and defend them far too much.

Yeh, as expected. You have a loose screw.

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Better jet?
Mig-29 9.13 is the better airframe. Kfir C7 possibly has a better airframe than Mig-29SMT, it depends on if any improvements happen from last dev to live.
All SMT has are new weapons and more fuel.
Granted, those R-73s are potent against afterburning targets.

I challenge every Pantsir player I come across, so far none have hit me doing standard random battle maneuvers. Can’t counter-attack yet due to no Mavs, but I can run the motions.

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Better jet?
Mig-29 9.13 is the better airframe. Kfir C7 possibly has a better airframe than Mig-29SMT, it depends on if any improvements happen from last dev to live.
All SMT has are new weapons and more fuel.
Granted, those R-73s are potent against afterburning targets.

Obviously a better jet = having better flight performance all of the time, nothing else matters, duh.

R-73 + better radar already make it a better jet than the 9.13, R-27ER can now be used to a greater effect as well. Lets also just ignore that top tier is about lobbying missiles at each other, with flight performance being one of the lesser aspects.

I wonder why you always go out of your way to waste people’s time with this nonsencical logic. In any case, on the ignore list you go :wink:

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That better radar still doesn’t match or exceed F-16C & Mirage 2000 5F.
I wouldn’t be surprised if F-16A’s radar is still superior as it’s superior to Yak-141’s radar, and the radar in SMT is allegedly the same as Yak-141’s intended radar.

Also lol @ ignoring people that criticize your precious “Russian” vehicles.