Russian Bias in 2026?

Machinery of War Discussion
1583

Spikes are baby missiles in comparison to what we have now.
They are slower and most helicopters had up to 8 of those, meanwhile you’re able to carry up to 16 JAGMs on all of those 64E copies.

It’s clear to see how helicopter armaments evolved both in quality and quality, which naturally doesn’t help SACLOS AAs.

At that point in time 28NM and US 64E both had LDIRCM which rendered IR SAMs almost useless, making them sitting ducks in the process. ARH missiles weren’t much better off either due to how in game radar interacts with hovering helicopters. That’s like you add helicopters to several nations with theoretical SACLOS-jammer and then act surprised SACLOS AAs lost loads of lethality.

There’s nothing to prove as Pantsir can and will see 11.0 games.

How does this relate to my comment ?
If you’re trigger happy and immediately shoot at first helicopter contact (in order to not let them launch), it’ll be easy to bait out your missiles by someone aware of this hyper-aggressive and hyper-sensitive approach.

Current Pantsir and all other SACLOS AAs are nothing more than a nuisance to our best helicopters, which is the entire point of my engagement in this discussion.

We’ll see how good new Pantsir will be, but sacrificing 4 of your good missiles just to intercept a single salvo of JAGMs (with implied 100% interception rate).

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1584

That turret basket and enormous modeled FCS were exactly the kind of buff Leclercs needed ngl

I’m sure the absence of turret basket on from now on T-series only won’t contribute to the general thought about Russia being shadow buffed.

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1585

I’m not disagreeing with you there, I’m saying that both Spikes existed for years and JAGMS/LMURS (for around 3 months) existed for years. We saw an instant drop in KD on the IR-based Spaa but we didn’t see that the same for SACLOS spaa, suggesting that it’s countering these helis (or at the very least countering brain dead heli players).

With the Pantsir , we saw a slight bump up in KD

that’s point of my very first message… These helis are making these top tier spaa near useless and the only way to counter them is to use SACLOS spaa. Fix how LDIRCM interacts with IR missiles and how radar interacts with hovering helicopters before adding a super pantsir which will give Russia the only best counter to these helis.

Again, we don’t know the ratio from down tiers to uptiers. For all we know, pantsirs are significantly more common to see in uptiers than downtiers thus making their stats reflect more on how they perform in up tiers.

That is one of the issues using vague stats.

One of the issues with Apache (haven’t seen it much with the mi28), is that you cannot drop suddenly in altitude because it will result in you just crashing. You can compensate by gaining altitude, but it makes you vulnerable to proxy even if you go under cover.

Baiting missiles hardly work because all it does it puts you on the defensive making you near useless. If a pantsir has spotted you, its very hard for you to launch a missile off in the first place. Sure it also makes the pantsir puts it’s focus on you but how you will always be outnumbered because of how easy it is to spawn in one.

It’s foolish to lump in Pantsir with other SACLOS as pantsir offer multi-launch capabilities, excellent missiles, and search/track radar. It’s why you will always see pantsirs doing constant agm and heli interception in the kill feed .

It’s more than just a nuance, it’s a threat that helis takes very seriously.

As with the new pantsir, it’s currently bugged whenit comes to it’s mini missiles however from playing it in the test drive, it’s new main missiles will be a beast. It doesn’t have proxy but it has a sort of distance-based fuze which will make it hard to dodge by hiding behind cover. Even with it’s low HE, it does surprisingly really good fragmentation.

1586

It’s obvious that IR SAMs will drop in performance after LDIRCM got pushed into the game as it was a planned counter for them, most likely because Gaijin saw new AAs are dominating. SACLOS not getting their own tailor-made counter implies they weren’t that strong to begin with.

Nowadays majority of nations have access to LDIRCM helicopters, meaning people will spawn SACLOS more often to try and counter them, which isn’t really going their way to be honest.

This doesn’t mean SACLOS are an effective counter to helicopters either.

Near useless for the next 30 seconds before that trigger happy Pantsir runs out of missiles.

It’s still only a nuisance as multi launch capabilities doesn’t help with actually killing the helicopter.
As I said earlier, you can’t even intercept a full salvo of JAGMs before dying or going behind cover, so your window of usefulness is very short.

No it really isn’t.
It’s turning into a missilebot platform extremely fast nowadays, following the path of 2S6.

For the actual destruction of helicopters, VT-1 is just as good.

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1587

Again, that tactic only works for helicopters that can generate lift on a dime and is stable. The Apache isn’t one of them. The moment you go down, you better hope you have enough lift to prevent you from hitting the ground hard.

Assuming you’re in the right map, high enough altitude and you don’t get killed by it’s proxy, it’ll take you a lot longer to gain altitude, after you drop.

In addition, you will always be outnumbered in terms of how many pantsirs are in the ground.

Your offense matters as much as your defense. If you cannot intercept agms quickly then it takes time from you being focused on killing helicopters.

I don’t think you realize how rare it is to see a full 16 launch salvo in game. It’s rare because it take around 1-1.5 second to lock (assuming ir locks don’t lock onto something else). So if you allow someone to launch that many agms, you failed as an spaa. It’s why the Ba-11 is actually surprisingly good. 0.2 second seeker warm up time is extremely fast compared to other agms.

That is the fate of all spaa. To say otherwise is ignoring the reality of where the game is heading. swarm tactics is growing, and what’s stopping Russia from being battered into the ground by NATO CAS is the pantsir and in the next update an even more deadlier pantsir.

I believe there should be a spring sale or of that sorts in the near future. Invest yourself in a Apache. The Ka50 is good but it’ll turn into a missile joust so if you want to try out these tactics, the Apache is your best bet.

1588

7m16s

“Every single game I have played has been a defeat. Russia must have like 65-70% winrate at this BR.”

“I am so tired loosing everytime”

So I’m not the only one “coping” saying +10.7 is completely broken by the bias.

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1589

Remember that Pantsir’s radar is so good that it can detect you even if you show as little as your helicopter’s top, so you won’t need to drop down much.

That’s even better, you’ll be able to keep multiple Pantsir’s at bay while your team is advancing through the map and then seal clubbing all those AAs.

We already established that Pantsir can’t intercept all 16 JAGMs at once, even in theory.
You shooting down ordnance won’t make you better at shooting down the helicopter itself.

Helicopter doesn’t even need to launch all 16 at the same exact time in order to drain you out of missiles. One salvo is 16 missiles you need to account for + any missiles you spend shooting at the helicopter. Your stock of 24 missiles evaporates really fast and then you’re left to J-out or engage in a suicide mission to get back your missiles.

So we can finally agree Pantsir isn’t that great at countering helicopters.

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1590

Baiting exist for a reason. This doesn’t just apply for helicopters you know.

In addition, not all maps include physical barriers that prevent the missile from reaching you for example. If you are hiding behind trees, the pantsir’s radar can still track you (or at the very least give occasional locks which can allow the missile to directly hit you.

For the maps that do include a physical barrier, most of the maps, require you to climb due you becayse you need LOS of the enemy. When you climb, your chances of getting behind cover, or loosing the SPAA loosing lock decreases significantly.

So again, this tactic only applies in certain maps and even then you are still vulnerable.

You do realize that both teams has FnF helicopters? You keeping the pantsirs at bay doesn’t dismiss the fact that mi28 can reliably take out SACLOS and FnF spaa. One side has better advantage, than the other.

For the JAGM to be used effectively, it needs direct LOS of the target it doesn’t loft nearly as much as the LMUR. this means that any bushes, cover, or of that sorts will prevent the JAGMs from hitting the target. this applies to the majority of small-mid sized maps. To prevent this, you need to climb which will put you at significant risk.

If they don’t launch all 16 at once, then you can replenish them. Like you said you have 24 missiles total which is more than enough to keep enemy helis busy for a while. 16 JAGMs are only good if you can launch a lot of them at them at the same which is difficult when there’s a pantsir. If you can’t, you might as well use LMURs.

Ba-11s are more of threat the JAGMs for this very reason.

You shooting down munitions and keeping enemy helicopters at bay buys your team time to cap, kill enemies, etc.

It is significantly better than any SPAA in the game because it can counter helicopters and munitions. It doesn’t help that we’ll be getting a even better pantsir that will almost certainly get rid the majority of tactics used by helicopter players due to it’s time based fuze.

My guess on why the Mi28nm performs a lot better than the Guardians is because of this very reason. If there was no enemy pantsir, you can away with a lot of things in the gaurdian, but with it being present in almost all games, it forces you to play patiently and smartly which isn’t ideal for the short and fast paced nature of games.

1591

thenm make autoloader a turret ring at the same time?

1592

That’s not what an autoloader is.
Also the entire basket of Abrams and Leopard 2 aren’t the turret ring.
On Leopard 2 it was last seen to be only the floor plate and the ring itself.

1593

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2XGJyjWr-hA

No comment

1594

Just wait until you find out that I have survived a direct KH38MT impact in my M1A2T and both a direct impact KH38MT and Hammer in my 2A7HU. Hell iirc I still have the screenshot of the aftermath in my M1A2T.

CAS weaponry is just weird sometimes.

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1595

Abrams can definitely survive chit like this, it’s more of a wonky damage models rather than intentionally buffing certain vehicles to make them stronger lol

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1596

So are we going to talk about how all NATO MBTs (except Arietes I believe) have now turret basket + electronics implemented, while russian MBTs still don’t have any (for years now) and that we’re still waiting for a fair BMPT nerf ?

The bias has never been so important than todays

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1597

https://youtube.com/shorts/4GNl_mcgX2M?si=hRmrGjXvqE-TxLKz

No comment …

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1598

bruh I love that ytber but hes logic is pretty bad.

1599

The Leclerc is now completely dead, Gaijin is just beating a dead horse.

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1600

Should still easily be comparable to 2A5.

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1601

The game is unplayable with other nations at all.

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1602

you are right too