Russian top tier tanks need a fair buff

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
1938

Talking about vehicle capability without context is not as helpful. Lets say you pulled a successful flank, Nato ones are just superior with the firepower. But at this stage of the game dev love cqc with small maps so russian tanks generally have advantages with smaller weakspot with the exception of a few hilly maps.

Like armor is just that important, or else we would think L2A6 would be at the top with L2A7. Even with STRV122 ppl saying its the top with L2A7 so in their natural opinion without DM53 doesnt change anything, its more about the armor + gun depression that leo gets

1939

No I’m just using it as an example to show the minuscule weak spot you posted, these weakspot arent a great spot to hit with the enemy moving, while it can be penned when stationary (like T44 vs tiger), we dont play on top of server so generally not applicable

1940

CQC is widely considered an advantage for RU MBTs, when it really isn’t.

RU MBTs lack these factors that are essential in cqc:

  • Mobility
  • Reaction time
  • Reload speed
  • Reverse speed

Weakspots are arguably easier to hit in cqc than at long range, but at mid range its the easiest.

Armor is important when you don’t sacrifice many essential factors to get it. 2A7 does not sacrifice anything beyond top speed.

1941

Once again, you are responding to the wrong user.

I didn’t post any small weakspots in this topic.
I have exactly zero posts in this entire topic that contain small weakspots.
The only post I made this entire YEAR [We’re in March] that contain a small weakspot is on the Germany topic where I posted a screenshot of the Leopard 2A7V.

Also when an enemy is moving their side armor is to me and I just shoot that…

So yeah, go to the user that actually posted small weakspots, cause they aren’t me. Stop confusing them with me, cause it’s weird.

1942

Mobility as in T90M yeah, but Id say bvm is good enough since it does have ok reverse. Also the reaction time (a few degrees of difference?) I wont consider since not evryone has 40 in top tier. Reload speed only matters if you failed a shot, but yeah

1943

There is something important you need to understand that is explaining why people are complaining about the russian bias :

  • Spikes/MMPs are broken (gotta love hitting commander MG 2 times in a row, a cannon then 6 ERAs eating the ATGM) ;
  • NATO MBT armors being paper compared to reality and russian MBTs ingame ;
  • NATO MBTs getting nerfed to the ground (turret basket and electronics everywhere now, except the Arietes I think. We’re still waiting for t-series basket, maybe in 8 years we don’t know) ;
  • NATO MBTs not getting their best DART (Leos, Leclercs)
  • T-series model are broken (ERAs and autoloaders eat DARTs ( Russian Bias in 2026? - #1603 by SnuggyNyx , unbelievable), ERAs eat ATGMs, the whole model eat bombs ( Stalinium armor? - #684 by TROOPER7 : what is THIS seriously ??!)
  • LMURs top down approach are correctly modeled, as well as their damage model => AH-64E AGMs are completely BROKEN compared to these, you usually need 2-4 missiles to destroy MBTs/SPAAs/BMPTs
  • BMPTs are broken, no need to develop here
  • Pantsir-S1 currently best SACLOS SPAA in the game (12 ready-to-fire missiles, multi targeting system). Let’s not even talk about the next 12.7 Pantsir, this will end top tier experience pure and simple ;
  • Tiger helicopters still at 12.7, why ? 8 FnF missiles VS 16 for other helis, 7-8 km max range VS 16/25 km max range for other helis, no IRCM, climb slower than other helis, HAC and UHT don’t even have a cannon ;
  • 75% of small maps, advantaging russian MBTs because they rush you in corners
  • To shoot at russian MBTs, gotta go pixelhunting. Urban debris on the ground ? Good luck shooting at LFP. The MBT does zigzags ? Good luck shooting at LFP. The MBT has bushes all over UFP ? Good luck shooting at driver’s port/breach (especially when you have the blur motion on, and that those bushes will “melt” with the tank’s armor in a blurry weird way). You shoot at russian MBTs from far away ? Good luck, gotta go pixel hunting. NATO MBTs in comparaison ? You point, click and shoot. Simple, easy.
  • Russian MBTs don’t need to have the best pen, because NATO MBT armors are paper. They have basically the same speed going forward. They now have basically the same reload speed as well (6.4sec reload = +/- the 6sec reload some NATO MBTs have). They of course have so much armor that even top NATO darts can’t frontaly pen.
  • IFVs : russians have IFVs with much higher fire rate, laser accuracy, 2 cannons (1 main for HE/ATGMs, 1 autocannon), much faster than some wheeled NATO IFVs. NATO IFVs in comparaison ? Bushmaster, completely garbage.
  • Yak-9k, completely broken.
  • Been playing some 7.3 US recently. Noticed something. Russian heavy/medium tanks, and some of their tank destroyer, are almost unpenable, IF YOU PLAY A NATO HEAVY TANK AGAINST THEM. IS-3 ? Gotta go pixel hunting in that turret neck. IS-4M ? Same, but the spot is even tinier (gotta love bouncing on its side with a 224mm pen shell too). T-10M ? Don’t even think you can pen that. Object 268 ? Gotta go pixel hunting in that driver’s port. T-54/55 ? Gotta go pixel hunting in that tiny cupola, berely visible). Hell, even some of their T-34/44 will bounce if their turret is angled weirdly. NATO heavy/medium tanks in comparaison ? Multiple weakspots, side will not bounce against a shell (even against russian SPAAs lmao), if you turn your turret a little bit, you’re done.
  • T-series MBTs have IRST + HE + Proxy HE + ATGM shells. Some NATO MBTs don’t even have any of that.
  • Sweedish IFVs still don’t have IRST

So many more things could be said. NATO SPAAs don’t have cannons. Russia has literally 10 MBTS/IFVs they can use at top tier, worning out NATO forces because they don’t have as many => which leads to constant losses against Russia at top tier GRB. Russia has that 1 ship that doesn’t even exist. KH 38s don’t exist too as well. In the main trailer, it’s the russian MBT that wins against the Abrams. When the AH-64 launches missiles against the russian MBT, we can’t see if the tank exploded or not, because they cut the scene. A lot, lot more.

It’s all of these problems that lead NATO to constantly loose against Russia, especially at top tier. They’re just more advantaged than the rest of the nations. The bias is real, it’s not paranoia man.

1 Like
1944

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wierd but ok

1 Like
1945

Thanks for proving my post correct.

The entire turret is not small…
I picked the thickest part for the penetration value because people would’ve claimed I was intentionally aiming for the weakest part.

If you have proof that Abrams weakspots are tiny, post the proof.

1 Like
1946

-11 is not enough to properly retreat, which is relatively common in cqc. You hear multiple people rock up, and a NATO tank can reverse out of there at 30 km/h, reaching either teammates or a more defensive position.

Well, I meant this more for non BVM/90M/B3, but 90M and B3 do lag behind the likes of comparable NATO MBTs due to worse hull traverse, but its minimal.

Its not always a 1v1. If you kill one guy, and another pushes, something like Abrams gives them 2 less seconds to make their push.

1947

Honestly can’t be asked to individually reply to each one of these with a counterpoint, but

OP Non-Russian Vehicles, some were, some still are, some on release, some after a significant buff:

PakPuma, XP-50, Aerfer Ariete, Sagittario 2, M4A3 105, M1 Abrams, AH-1Z, Leopard 2K, Leopard 2A4, Leopard 2A5, Leopard 2A6, Leopard 2A7V, Leopard 2AV, PT-16/T-14 Mod., Strv 122A, Type 90, Leclerc S1, German KV-1B, CW-21, TURM III, IPM1, M1A1, Coelian, HE 100, P-39N, J2M2, R3 T20, Mitsubishi T-2, EBR 1954, Gepard, XM246, ItPsV 90, ZA-35, Falcon, AMX-30 DCA, Harrier, SdKfz 140/1, F-14A, F-4E, XM800T, VIDAR, Kpz/MBT-70, Puma, T18E2, Schützenpanzer PUMA, Ki-44-II, T58, T20, M4A3E2 75 Jumbo, M4A3E2 76 Jumbo, Calliope, P-59, Conqueror, Centurion Mk.2, Centurion Mk.3, Tiger H1, Tiger E, Rafale C F3, Mirage 2000 CS5/CS4, Mirage 3C, F-15E/F-15I, CL-13B, JAS39A, FJ-4B VMF (Ground), F2G-1, P-51C, F4U-1, P-39N, F8F-1, P-51D-10, P-38L, F4U-4, P-51H, F-80C, F4U-4B, F-86Fs, F-18A, F-8U, LIM-5P, Spitfire LF MK.9, Sea Meteor, Typhoon Mk.1B, A7M2, Ki-84 Ko2, B7A2 Homare, F-5s, VL Pyörremyrsky, A-4E (Ground), Leo 1 L/44, G.91 (Ground), T14, Magach Hydra, Merkava Mk.3 (US), Merkava Mk.2 (US), Merkava Mk.1 (US), XM803, XM1 Chrysler, XM1 GM, IRIS-T SLM, M24DK, A-10A Early, A-10C, LVT M24, L-62 ANTI, B1 Ter, P40, Somua SM, A6M5 Ko, Tiger UHT, YAH-64, AH-64E, Z-10ME, Mi-28A (Sweden), G-Lynx, Merkava Mk.4M LIC, AH Mk.1 Apache, A-129 CBT/International, AH-60 (Israel), F-16A, AGS, T 80 U (Sweden), A-1H (Ground), Ho-Ri Production, TAM, TAM 2IP, FV4030/2 Shir 2, TTD, M4A1, M4, M4A2, CV 90105, A-6E TRAM, Strf 9040B, Strf 9040C, Strf 9040 BILL, Lvkv 9040C, Begleitpanzer 57, Ka-Chi, T29, M551 (76), Ru 251, VT1-2, Class 3 (P), Fox, OF-40 Mk.2, OF-40 (MTCA), Leopard 40/70, Lorraine 40t, AMX-40, Strv 103A/-0,

1948

While all these points are valid, the first shot advantage plays a huge factor which generally snowballs into a number difference. Under the same skill level having smaller weakspot just meant a lesser reaction time, not to mention the turret baskets (usually disables engine too if shot from front)

1949

It depends. In frontal engagement where both notice each other at the same time, RU vehicle has the advantage. But in most cases, NATO vehicles’ superior mobility and soft factors allow them to reach the advantageous positions first, giving them the advantage.

1950

I would consider top tier tanks have really similar mobility with difference of a few seconds (except for challenger), Id say its a niche case that you actually holds a really good position before others

1951

Man, what is this explanation

You know I’m right about all my points, it would take someone to be blind not to see all those advantages I stated against NATO

1 Like
1952

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T-80 has good mobility, but in terms of T-72/90, they struggle heavily.

1953

You say that, but then I’ve also one tapped russian, and chinese MBTs frontally with spikes from the Namer. Whilst then a nato MBT soaking one directly on the roof.

Please show me a NATO MBT IRL being able to survive a long rod penetrator through say the lower glacis at 1km range.
They are fantastic machines, and certainly better than Russian tanks IRL hwoever they are not some hyper armoured indestructible machines.

The fact is even some of the most well defended MBTs for their times have been penetrated by not even long rods, CR2 being penetrated by an RPG9 ? was it? shows just that.

He says as NATO MBTs have the highest penning darts in game by a large margin.

DM53 is nearly 700MM of pen mate if you need higher than that, then massive skill issue.

shock horror auto loaders soak spall and eat darts for literally every tree it’s RNG based which has been proven time and time again.

Leopard roof MGs are nutorious for eating even up to 3k LB bombs man, what’s this one isolated event supposed to show lol, I’ve got a picture of my WZ1001 after taking a direct hit from a KH38MT, 2 of them to be exact and driving off as if nothin happened.

Jag missiles are doing just fine mate, not as good as LMURs but still absolutely destroying top tier lol

Agreed but they’ve began to at least rectify it -.- never should of happened.

Clutching at straws here mate, stat shark shows Pantsir had back before the new SPAA dropped about a 1.48 KD, IRIS T had after just a month nearly 3.0KDm was about 2,89 or such, which is nearly Double pantsir.

No one batted an eyelid.

all helis which are about 11.3 and up are completely obsolete now due to the new SPAA; not just tigers, I’ve got the AH64 Paten and it’s useless.

That’s a disadvantage for russian tanks which are

  • less mobile.
  • worse rounds so less room for error than DM53 slingers (and ofc M829A2 slingers)
  • no reverse gears.

You do not need to pixel hunt, at all man, you just don’t need to shoot the UFP.
The one armoured spot.

No they don’t I use high motion blur and max graphics and can hit them no worries at all.

eh they hve a -4 reverse gear, if they mess up theri shot they aint getting out your sights, plenty time enough to aim, hit them and move if you need to.
Or just fire again, and finish em off if you somehow bugger up the first shot so bad.

  • 1 they do not have the same speed going forward at all, the only Top tier russian MBT which is anywhere near the same as NATO MBTs is the 80BVM.

  • 2 they do not have basically the same reload at all lol, most top tier MBTs have a 5 second reload, or if you aren’t aced, 5.3 seconds. Abrams, Leclerc, Type10, CR2, Ariete, Merkavas.
    All load substantially faster than the T80BVM , bever mind T90M.

Bushmaster sucking doesn’t mean all NATO IFVs suck?
The AJAX was doing just fine, pumas not bad, the FReccia n such are also pretty damn potent.
Type 89 is strong as hell as well for it’s BR.

I’ve got one and have no idea how it’s broken, i hate the thing with a passion.

huge skill issue brother
If I can pen an IS 3 with a damn M26 with the short 90MM then you can with the long 90 found at 7.3.

yes you can, LFP , drivers port, turret roof.

Lower forntal plate, drivers port, cupolas effectively don’t shoot the huge ass peen on the thickest part and it’ll go through

No you don’t, at all.
Lower frontal plate can one tap em easy as pie.

What? The T32E1 at 7.7 for example is a monster at its BR.
The M103 I started to take it back out, exchanging its heat for the AP and it absolutely slams as well.

Conquoror? cuts through russian MBTs and heavies like butter.

Tell me, what russian mBT has IRST? with proxy HE? the T90M does not have proxy HE it has time fused which is pretty piss.

Which are completely useless lol? they’re a gimmick but if you are using them, or have died to them then skill issue.

your initial points on lMUR and such are not that debatable but pff the vast majority of what you said is uneducated slop about the vehicles and game

EDIT: after a quick look at your statistics it does show quite clearly why you believe what you do. You barelt manage over 900 score a game. How’s that even possible.

3 Likes
1954

I did actually mate lol DW

1 Like
1955

778768938296672286

2 Likes
1956

As I stated before, only the 0-30 time maters, because it is related to the actual speed you have midfighting someone.

The 0-60 and top speed don’t mater, because russian MBTs will just camp hull down somewhere (so no need for them to flank), or rush you in corners midfight.

Concerning the 0-30 speed, t-90, t72, t80, leos, leclercs, abrams, types, even challengers : they’re all the same speed more or less. We’re talking about X/10th / X/1th here.

Russian and NATO MBTs basicaly have the same speed

1957

The turret weakspots look smaller on Abrams compared to T-80BVM because the vehicle is larger, but the initial weakspots are about the same size.
The biggest irony is once the turret ERA of T-80BVM is gone, the entire turret is the weakspot.

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T-80BVM’s turret weakspot to armor ratio is higher than Abrams’ turret.

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