Rio de la Plata (Argentine-Brazilian-Uruguay) Tech Tree

Would you support a Rio de la Plata TT
  • Yes, Fully
  • No, Argentina/Uruguay & Brazil should be separate TT’s
  • No, Never
  • Maybe/I don’t know/I don’t care

0 voters

Are you okay if Bolivian Vehicles are added to the Rio de la Plata TT
  • Yes
  • No
  • Maybe/I don’t know/I don’t care

0 voters

Do you support Iraqi modified EE-9 Cascavels being added to the TT
  • Yes
  • No
  • Maybe/I don’t know/I don’t care

0 voters

Which TT branch should aircraft like the IA.58C Pucara & A-29 Super Tucano be in
  • Air TT
  • Air TT, with some restrictions
  • Helicopter TT
  • A new COIN TT
  • I don’t want these kind of Aircraft ingame
  • I don’t know/I don’t care

0 voters

Note: This thread is very incomplete is currently under construction so please be patient as I fill out the details. Also if you have any additional info, images, sources or even vehicles I missed please let me know

There has always a huge demand for vehicles from South America, where ever it is Aircraft from Argentina or Ground Vehicles from Brazil. There are currently suggestions for Independent TT’s for Argentina/Uruguay & Brazil both on the old and new forums and they do show potential, however they so have some noticeable issues (one-dimensional gameplay style for Ground Vehicles or lack of Top-Tier Jets in the case of Argentina or the lack of unique Air Vehicles for Brazil). An easy way to fix this is to combine the two TT’s together since they compliment their strengths and compensate their weaknesses well. A few people have already prototyped the idea, particularly on the old forum, this is specifically my interpretation of the idea

What would a Rio de la Plata TT look like

Air TT

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Ground TT

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Helicopter TT

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TBA

Coastal Fleet TT

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TBA

Bluewater Fleet TT

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TBA

Vehicles

Aircraft

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Tier I
Dewoitine D.21:

Vought V.80F:

Hawk III & IV:

NiD-72C-1:

Boeing Model 256:

Vought V 65B/F & V 66B/F:

V-142A:

Fw-58B-2:

Spoiler

The Fw-58, also known as the Weihe (Harrier) is a light twin engine reece, liaison, transport, training and bomber aircraft designed by Focke Wulf. Brazil brought a license to produce the Fw-58 locally starting in 1938. The Fw-58 saw action with various nations including combat roles, Brazil is no exception to this. The Brazilians however did do a couple of upgrades to them, firstly they add 2 additional hardpoints on the wings allowing to carry light bombs or depth charges, the second upgrade is changing the guns from MG15’s to 30cal Browning lmg’s (2 in the nose as well). Another thing to note is due to Brazilian Fw-58 being built domestically used local wood sources, because of that, Brazilian Fw-58’s are heavier than their German counterparts and performance (slightly) suffered as a result of it

Brazil primarily used them for Anti-Submarine and Maritime Patrol purposes until they were retired in 1952

Image

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Focke Wulf FW.58 B2 Weihe-1

NA-16:

I.Ae 22 DL & I.Ae 22C DL:

AT-6 Texan:

Dornier Jwal:

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The Jwal is a floatplane designed by Dornier during the 1920’s which the Argentine Navy operated, it can be equipped with light bombs and depth charges. It also has 3 defensive LMG mountings, 2 single lmg mountings on the back and one twin mount in the front. It will be the starter aircraft in the Bomber line. The Jwal will also be deployable from ships with Reece aircraft

Ae M.B.1 & M.B.2:

Junkers K.43:

Martin Model 133 WA & WAN (H):

FMA.21 (Premium):

OS2U-3 (Gift & Ship deployable Reece aircraft):

NiD-72 (Premium):

PBY-5 (Premium):

Tier I

Hawk-75O & Hawk-75O (20mm):

I.Ae 24 Calquin Early & Late:

Hurricane Mk.IID:

P-36A:

P-40K-15 & M:

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Brazil operated a total of 87 P-40’s from 1942 up to 1955 making Brazil one of the last if not the last operator to retire P-40’s. More specifically Brazil operated 6 P-40E-1’s, 31 P-40K’s (K-1, K-10 & K-15), 9 P-40M’s and the remaining 41 being P/F-40N’s

Images

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P-40K
P-40
P 40 GALEAO BLOGSPOT


P-40M
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Avenger AS.4:

PBM-5:

I.Ae 35 “Huanquero”:

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The I.Ae 35 is a family of aircraft designed by the famed Kurt Tank. This specific aircraft fill various roles including an Ambulance, Light Transport, Light Cargo, Reece, Liaison and Most critically, a light bomber/COIN aircraft. The combat variant is designated as the “Huanquero”. Armament wise it is equipped with 2 forward firing M2 Browning HMG’s using Post-war ammo. Secondary weapon wise consists of 4 small bombs (up to 400kg total on the belly) and T10 unguided rockets on the wings. The I.Ae 35 was eventually phased out when more dedicated aircraft were put into operation service like the Pucara COIN aircraft & Cordoba Airliner.

Image

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Link to the suggestion to said vehicle below
FMA I.Ae.35 "Huanquero"

V-11GB & V-11GB2:

A-35 Vengance:

8A-2:

A-28A:

SM.79B:

A-20K:

Hawk-75H (Pre-order):

V-11GB2F (Squadron):

Tier III

G.55A:

G.59A:

Spitfire F Mk.VIII:

P-47D-25:

P-47D-27:

T-28P:

S-2E:

S-2T:

T-25 Universal:

T-34C Turbo Mentor:

T-28S:

PV-1 Harpoon:

PV2-5:

SP-2E & SP-2H:

Spitfire F Mk.Vb (Premium):

Tier IV

I.Ae 30 “Nancu” (Oerlikon):

P-47D-30:

F4U-5:

F4U-5N & F4U-5NL:

A-26B & C:

AX-04:

IA.58A “Pucara”:

EMB-312 Tucano:

IA.58D:

IA.66:

Lancaster B Mk.I:

B-26C:

Lincoln B Mk.II:

F-51D-20 (Premium):

IA.58 Pre production (Premium):

AX-02 (Event/Battlepass):

IA.58B (Squadron):

Tier V

I.Ae 27 “Pulqui I”:

Meteor F Mk.3:

Meteor F/C (FGA) Mk.4:

I.Ae 37 “Etapa 4”:

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This is a prototype tailless interceptor designed by Reimar Horten, there is two variants of this aircraft, the Ala Delta i.e the prone down tailless interceptor and the Etapa 4 i.e the prototype with a more conventual cockpit. 2. The I.Ae 37 were intended to have Rolls Royce Derwent V engine. Both were planned to be equipped with 2 20mm autocannons (most likely Hispano Mk.V’s) mounted under the cockpit. The project was cancelled after the prototype crashed during testing

Images

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fma-37
FMA-I.Ae_.-37-Foto3

I.Ae.33 (No.5):

F-80C:

Meteor F.8:

MB-326GC:

MB-339A:

F9F-2B:

F9F-8T:

MS.760 Paris:

AT-26 Xavante:

IA.58C:

Canberra B.62 & T.64:

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Argentina brought a total of 12 Canberra’s (10 B.2’s and 2 T.4’s) in the early 1970’s. The B.62 and T.64 designations refer to the first set of refurbishments done in the UK, mainly to extended the lifespan of them. During the Falklands war, Argentina did a total of 54 sorties, losing 2 to a AIM-9L fired from a Sea Harrier and Sea Dart AAM respectively. After the Falklands war Argentina needed to obtain bombs from elsewhere and do modifications to make them compatible as a result from the resulting embargo of British weapons and weapon systems. The Argentine Airforce used bombs of Spanish origin as well as testing Soviet/Russian made FAB/OFAB bombs on them, Argentine Canberra’s can mount FFAR Mighty mouse rocketpods. Also as a result of Argentina’s experiences in the Falklands war, they were modified to carry countermeasures (flares only). They were retired in 2000 with some being on display

Images

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Link to the suggestion to said vehicle below
English Electric/BAC Canberra B.Mk.62

IA-63 “Pampa”:

I.Ae 37 “Ala Delta” (Event):

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This is essentially the prone-down variant of the I.Ae 37, because of that the 2 autocannons are placed on the wings instead of under the cockpit. Again this is a prototype and a very unique one since there is very few prone-down cockpit aircraft and even fewer combat capable ones though for very good reasons making it an ideal Event vehicle

Images

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I.Ae 33 “No.4” (Pre-order):

Fokker S.14 (Squadron):

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The Brazilian Airforce Evaluated the Fokker S.14 for a potential Trainer and Light Attack aircraft, even potentially obtain a license to build the S.14 domestically. This was rejected in favour of the T-33 Shooting Star. The S.14 can equip 2 Hispano Mk.V, HVAR’s, RP-3’s and small bombs

Canberra B.92 (Premium):

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Two refurbished and modernized Canberras (a B.2 & T.4) was intended for Argentina however were seize during the outbreak of the Islas Malvinas conflict

Tier VI

F-86F-30 & F-40:

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Argentina Operate around 26 F-86F’s from 1960 to 1986 (F-30’s and F-40’s). The Argentine Air force modified their Sabres to use T10 & T151 rockets, rocket pods and various bombs. The F-40 is also upgraded to use Shafrir II AAM’s due to Argentina’s preferring the Shafrir’s over the AIM-9B

Images

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5.N.A.F-86F Sabre C-120


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Ayit:

A-4Q:

AF-1A:

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The AF-1 is the Brazilian designation for the A-4KU, Brazil brought 20 A-4KU’s and 3 TA-4KU’s from Kuwait in 1997, mainly so Brazil has a more capable carrier borne strike aircraft. First operated on the Minas Gerais, later the Sao Paulo (formerly the Foch). Brazil still operates the Skyhawk to this day making it one of two nations to still operate the Skyhawk that is not a PMC, the other being Argentina

Images

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AF-1 (Brazil)_007
AF-1 (Brazil)_001

Super Etendard:

A-37B Dragonfly:

AT-26A Xavante:

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Brazilian designation for the Impala II, Brazil brought 10 Atlas Impalas from South Africa, Brazilian Impala II’s will lack South African secondary ordinances otherwise it is identical to Impala II’s operated by South Africa

IA-63 Pampa II:

A-4P:

A-4C:

IA-63 Pampa II NG:

IA-63 Pampa 2000 (Event):

A-4P(B) (Premium):

F-86F-40 “Cruz del Sur” (Premium):

Tier VII

Mirage IIICJ “Shahak”:

Mirage IIIEA & EA (mod):

F-5E:

F-103E:

Super Etendard SEM:

AMX A-1A & A-1T:

M-5 Dagger & Finger:

A-4AR:

Dagger B:

Mirage VP & VP “Mara”:

AF-1B (Squadron):

AMX R-1A (Squadron):

AMX A-1A (P)(Pre Order):

Mirage IIIDA (Premium):

F-5FM (Premium):

Tier VIII

F-16AR “Peace Condor”:

F-16AM:

F-5EM:

Mirage 2000C:

JAS-39E:

AMX A-1M:

F-16BM:

Ground Vehicles

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Tier I

T-16 Universal Gun Carrier (20mm Oerlikon AA & PAPI):

M8-LAC (Late):

T-17 Deerhound:

M3A1 Stuart:

VBB-02:

Spoiler

Essentially this was a design study on the feasibility of designing a domestically built armoured car. The Brazilian government greenlight this project primarily to be more self-sufficient in terms of weapons procurement. The Armoured car in question eventually became the VBB’s, 2 prototypes were built with the main difference between the two are different designed hulls. First prototype will be a Pack & GE Premium while the Second prototype will be a TT vehicle. Due to the nature of these vehicles, the VBB’s were never entered production, instead the lessons learned from them is critical in the development of Brazil’s later AC development like the EE-3, EE-9 & EE-11. This prototype still exists as a door guard at CTEx

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CihIMnd

VBR-2:

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Brazil’s Second attempt and continuation at making a domestically built armoured car, learning the lessons from the previous VBB project. Like with the Previous project it shares a lot of the same features including an extremely similar turret. One thing to note is that the VBR-2 is the first vehicle to use the Boomerang Suspension, a highly inventive suspension which future Brazilian defense firm Engesa will be known for. Essentially how it works is that the four back wheels instead of being connected to the body or having 2 axels, both wheels on the same side are connected together to one central axel. This gives any vehicle with this suspension unmatched mobility, especially on rough terrain.

Again like with the VBB, the VBR-2 never pass the prototype phase for a lot of the same reasons. The Boomerang Suspension is implemented on all of Engesa’s 6 wheeled Armoured cars

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Boomerang Suspension diagram
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M5 GMC (7.5cm Krupp):

Crusader SPG (7.5cm Krupp):

M5 HT (20 Oerlikon AA):

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Argentina operated a large fleet of M3, M5 & M9 half tracks mounting them with various weapons including the 20mm Oerlikon Autocannon mod.1938

Yacare Tractor & Thorncraft 20 Oerlikon AA:

VBB-01(Pre-order):

M8-LAC (MB)(Premium):

Tier II

DL.43 “Nauhel”:

M24 Chaffee:

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Uruguay brought around 17 M24 Chaffee’s in 1957-1958. Normally it would be functionally identical except for 2 aspects. Firstly, the Uruguayan Army mounted a dozer blade on their Chaffee’s the second could be a new shell for it, more specifically a APCR round, the same one found on the Jumbo Shermans and the super-rare tournament reward variant of the M24

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4Jew2EK

M3A3 & M3A5 Grant/Lee:

M4A1:

CRM (BT-90/37):

EE-9 Cascavel Mk.I:

Crusader SPG (75mm Bofors):

Crusader SPG (105):

X1A Anti-Aereo:

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X1A Prototype with a quad 50.cal turret mounting, intended as a light anti-air & infantry support vehicle, never pass the prototyping phase

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A3obINs

ACKWX 353AA:

DL.43 “Nauhel” (early)(Pre-order):

CRR-M8 (Premium):

M3 (Motor Deutz)(Squadron):

Tier III

M4A2 & M4A4:

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Functionally Identical to the M4A2 & M4A4’s ingame

Sherman Firefly IC & Vc:

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Functionally Identical to the Sherman Fireflies in the Italian TT

M4A1 Repotencidao:

M41A1 (early):

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Functionally identical to the M41A3 Premium in the Chinese TT

EE-11 Urutu (L23A1 & Quliha):

EE-11 Urutu (HB60):

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A prototype EE-11 Urutu with a 60mm Brandt Howitzer, the same one used on the AML/Eland-60, only one was built

M9 105 Czekalski RF (1967):

T16 Universal Gun Carrier (105 Czekalski RF):

AMX Mk F3 155mm SPH:

Ural 4320 (TCM-20):

Unimog & M113 (20mm Oerlikon AA):

EE-11 Urutu (ET-20):

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Recce and APC variant of the EE-11 Urutu armed with a 20mm autocannon, most likely an Rh202 or Oerlikon autocannon, inspite being placed in a turret, due to it’s high elevation it can do anti-air duties at a pinch. Used by a few countries including Brazilian and Venezuelan Armies

Link to the suggestion to said vehicle below
Engesa EE-11 Urutu ET-20 - Urutu with 20mm cannon

Sherman Firefly IC (Hybrid)(Premium):

M113 CITEFA (Premium):

EE-9 Cascavel (M1939)(Event):

Tier IV

Sherman Repotencidao (IC & VC):

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This is essentially Argentina’s upgrade program for their Sherman Fireflies akin to the Israeli M-51 Ishermans. Both the Repotencidao and the M-51 used the same family of Gun, the CN-105-57 with the main difference being that the Repotencidao’s Gun is licensed built in Argentina as the “L44/57” while the Isherman is brought from France. That is where the similarities between the Repotencidao and the M-51 end. First Major difference is Israel primarily used Ex American, Italian and French Shermans and the variants they use (75 & 76mm Shermans) while Argentina exclusively used Fireflies for their upgrade program. The second difference is the engines, the Ishermans used Cummins diesel engines while the Repotencidao used a Poyuard engine, a FIAT engine was proposed for the Repotencidao as well. The final difference is the Repotencidao program started way later than any of Israel’s Sherman upgrade programs.

There will be 3 variants, one on the Hybrid chassis, one on a Welded Chassis (the welded chassis will also get access to a dozer blade) and a Composite Chassis with a Mine clearer as a Premium vehicle.

Argentine Sherman Repotencidao’s saw service during the 1988 Mutiny

Images

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Repotencidao Hybrid


Repotencidao Welded

VCIM:

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Uruguayan designation for the BVP-1 (Czech BMP-1), lacks the ability to use Matlukya ATGM’s due to Uruguay never fielding the model of ATGM. Uruguay never fielded the Konkurs ATGM either, meaning that if it used a ATGM it would more like be something like a MILAN, a ATGM that Uruguay actually used. Otherwise it is Identical to other BMP-1’s

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CCL X1 “Pioneiro”:

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The CCL X1 is Brazil’s first attempt to upgrade the M3 Stuart to stay relatively competitive with modern armour as well as to modernize it starting in the 1960’s. It has gone through several modifications including the following:

  • a completely new turret sporting a 90mm cannon
  • the turret can mount secondary M2HB Browning HMG
  • a brand new engine from Scania
  • altered suspension system for better ground pressure

Out of the 400 M3 & M3A1’s Brazil operated, at least 52 & a prototype vehicle were upgraded to CCL X1’s

Images

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Link to the suggestion to said vehicle below

CCL X1 Pioneiro

M41A3:

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Functionally identical to the M41 Walker Bulldog in the German TT

X1A1 & X1A2 Carcara:

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The X1A1 was the first upgrade of the CCL X1 to address the shortcomings of it including a new transmission system and lengthened turret, only 1 X1 was upgraded to the X1A1 standard. The X1A2 was a completely new Light Tank, learning the lessons from the X1 & X1A1, the X1A2 used a more modern low pressure 90mm cannon. 24 were built before the program was canned for the M41 Walker Bulldog

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X1A1


X1A2
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Mowag (HS-90):

Mowag Grenadier:

Urutu/Uruvel Hydracobra:

ERC-90:

IMARA (Bantam):

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Dodge Ute modified by IMARA (Argentine Marine corp) to be a ATGM carrier, used the Rb-53 “Bantam” ATGM found on the HKP3C

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OT-64 (M40):

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A Uruguayan OT-64 with it’s BDRM-2 derived turret removed and replaced with a M40 recoilless Rifle

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M9 105 Czekalski RF (1974):

T16 Universal Carrier (1967):

VCTP:

EE-T4 Ogum (20mm AA):

Panhard VCR AA:

Unimog (30 Hispano-Suiza AA):

2S1 (Premium):

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Functionally identical to the Soviet/Hungarian 2S1’s ingame, small batches of 2S1’s operated by Uruguay

EE-9 Cascavel Mk.II (Pre-order):

AML-90 (Premium):

M9 UC (1967)(Event):

EE-9 Cascavel(2A28 Grom)(Squadron):

Sherman Repotencidao (Urdan Mine Clearer)(Premium):

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A Sherman Repotencidao (most likely Composite) with the Urdan mine clearing equipment

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Uruvel M5 (Squadron): Built in Brazil, Evaluated by India, Operated by Tunisia

Tier V

AMX-13 (105):

Sk-105A1:

Patagon:

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Combines the Turret of the AMX-13(105) with the hull of the Sk-105A1

M41A1UR:

M41B Carro Padrao:

M41C Caxias:

MB-3 Tamoyo I:

MB-3 Tamoyo III:

EE-9 Cascavel Mk.III:

M8 IME:

Spoiler

Brazil, like with their M3 Stuarts want to upgrade their M8 Greyhounds to keep up with the most contemporary vehicles, one of which is a M8 Greyhound with it’s original turret removed and subsequently replaced with a domestically built Turret using a weapon system that is identical or the very least an analogue of the 8cm Oerlikon rocket launcher found the Rakjagenautomat and U-SH-405. This never pass the prototype phase

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M8 DPET:

EE-9 Cascavel Mk.III (ET-25): Built in Brazil, Intended for the Iraqi Army

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This is a proposed variant of the EE-9 Cascavel with the 25mm Oerlikon KBA autocannon, intended for the Iraqi Army. Iraq was (and still is) a prolific user of various Brazilian military including the Cascavel and Urutu, Iraq also evaluated the Ogum Tankette, Osorio MBT and ASTROS II MLRS system. In 1985 the Saddam regime has filled a requirement to Engesa to make a Cascavel variant for Reece and Anti-Air duties more specifically Anti-Helicopter duties. The prototype was tested both in Brazil and Iraq in front of Iraqi military officials. The vehicle was ultimately not accepted for several factors. One functioning prototype was built

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TAM VCA-155:

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A SPG variant of the TAM using a Palmaria Turret, 20 were built

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EE-3 Jararaca MILAN: Built in Brazil, operated by Cyprus

M109A5+:

EE-T4 Ogum (TOW):

Mowag S530:

EE-11 Urutu Anti-Aereo:

Charrua Anti-Aereo:

Flakpanzer Gepard 1A2:

M60 Patton (Premium):

EE-9 Cascavel (Type-63)(Event):

MB-3 Tamoyo II (Pre-order):

MB-1/XC-30 (Squadron):

TAM Prototype (Pre-order):

EE-9 Cascavel (M40A1)(Squadron):

TAM VCLC (Premium):

Tier VI

TAM:

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Already ingame as a German TT Vehicle

T-55 TENSA: Upgrade package by Argentina (Argentine Firm), intended for the Peruvian Army (never accepted into service/cancelled)

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In 1991 the Peruvian army was looking to upgrade their stock of T-55’s, they eventually set up a proposed contract with Argentine firm Talleres Electromecánicos Norte S.A. (TENSA). The upgrades were intended to be done in their Lima factory with the prototype done in Argentina. TENSA was hired for this contract due to their experience modernizing other armoured vehicles, mainly vehicles operated by the Argentine Army but they did modernization/upgrade packages to other Latin American countries on occasion. The upgrades consists of the following:

  • replacing the D-10T 100mm with a L7 cannon, the same one found on the TAM
  • replacing the old Soviet Era engine with a new engine from MTU (most likely the same engine family that the TAM also uses)
  • a brand new Infra red light
  • new 77mm smoke launchers
  • rubber side skirts

The upgrades remind me a lot of the upgrades that the Egyptian army is doing to their T-54, 55’s & 62’s. Ultimately the project was cancelled in the engine mainly due to various internal issues in TENSA with the sole prototype in the premises of the TENSA Lima factory. Peru never pursuit the idea of upgrading their T-55’s again until 17 years later with the T-55 Leone’s in 2008

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TBA

Ti-67:

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Uruguayan designation for the Tiran 5Sh. Uruguay purchased 15 Tiran-5’s from Israel in 1997. The Tiran-5’s went through various upgrades including, replacing the original Soviet guns (main cannon, co-ax & roof mounted) with western analogues; the D-10T 100mm cannon is replaced with a 105mm M68 cannon, both the co-ax & roof mounted SGMT & DSHK’s are replaced with M1919A4 lmg’s. The engine and transmission systems are also replaced. The main difference between Uruguayan Tirans and Israeli Tirans is that the Uruguayan Tiran, inspite having mountings for Blazer ERA, never mounted them meaning that Uruguayan Tiran will likely not have any ERA. Inspite of this the Ti-67 is the most well armoured tank in the Argentine/Uruguay line

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Sk-105A2:

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Already ingame as a German TT Vehicle

M60A3 TTS:

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Already ingame as a US & Taiwanese TT Vehicle

Leopard 1A5BR:

EE-9 Cascavel Mk.IV:

VAPE-1 & 2:

EE-11 Urutu (TOW):

VLEGA Gaucho (TOW-2+RBS-70):

VBTP Gurani UT-30BR:

EE-9 M2 SIMDABA:

TAM VDA:

VBTP Gurani AAe:

TAM Mine Clearer (Premium):

TAM “211” (Pre Order):

EE-9 Cascavel TORC-30 (Squadron):

Tier VII

TAM-2C:

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Already ingame as a German TT Vehicle

TAM-2IP:

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Already ingame as a German Premium Vehicle

TAM-2CAC:

TAM-2CIP:

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Combines the armor package of the TAM-2IP with the FCS control system & Firepower improvement of the TAM-2C, never pass the prototype phase

EE-T1 & T2 Osorio:

EE-17 Sucuri I:

EE-18 Sucuri II:

Centauro II:

EE-9U MX:

VLEGA Chivunk (SIATT):

Marder Roland:

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Identical to the Marder Roland in the German TT

TAM S.XXI (Squadron):

Helicopters

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TBA

Coastal Vessels

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TBA

Blue Water Vessels

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TBA

Possible additions

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Argentina

Air:

  • M-346 & Yak-130: Aermacchi & Yakolev are making proposals to the Argentine Air Force to replace their aging fleet of A-4’s & IA-63’s, negotiations are still ongoing, both Aermacchi & Yakolev also made similar proposals to Bolivia & Uruguay
  • IA.58 Pucara Fenix:
  • AeMO.1:

Air (Proposals & Unfinished aircraft):

  • I.Ae 30 “Pallavicino”: Proposed Jet fighter-bomber variant of the I.Ae 30 Nancu, abandoned in favour of developing a new dedicated jet combat aircraft
  • SAIA-90: Proposed 4Gen Multirole fighter, abandoned in the 1990’s due to financial reasons
  • IA-43: Transonic Fighter Bomber, was abandoned in the 1960’s due to political reasons, project revived by India as the “HF-24 Marut”
  • I.Ae 28 Super Calquin: Proposed evolution of the I.Ae 24 Calquin, addressing a lot of the issues of said bomber aircraft. Project cancelled in favour of the I.Ae 30 Nancu with one incomplete mockup

Ground:

  • VCTP: APC based on the hull of the Marder/TAM, only equipped with the 20mm Rh202 autocannon and a lmg
  • WZ-551: Wheeled APC of Chinese origin, used by Argentina during Peacekeeping missions
  • DL.43 Nahuel (Bofors): Proposed variant where the 7.5cm Krupp cannon is replaced with a 75mm Bofors cannon, rumors of 1 prototype being built however there is isn’t much evidence proving it’s existence

Brazil

Air:

  • P-40E
  • A-29 Super Tucano: This aircraft is intentionally hold off due to balance considerations (i am already pushing it with the addition of the IA.58C), once a solution is found it will immediately be added
  • P-95B “Bandeirulha”: Twin engine Maritime Patrol aircraft, can equip rockets, bombs and depth charges, other armaments are currently unknown
  • EMB 145 MP: Proposed Anti-Shipping and Anti-Submarine variant of the P-99 akin to the Dassault-Breguet Guardian, no prototypes were built
  • EMB-312H: Prototype EMB-312 prototype for the JPATS program similar to the Pampa 2000

Ground:

  • Flakpanzer Gepard 1A2
  • CCL X1 HVMS: Proposed CCL X1 variant with the 60mm HVMS cannon, intended for the Ecuadorian Army, was never completed and was rejected in favour of the EE-9 Cascavel
  • CRM: Pre-production EE-9 Cascavel Mk.I as well as a test bed for various turrets and cannons
  • CV-9040: Brazil trailed the earlier CV-90’s back in 2000, it never passed the trial phase
  • CV-90 Mk.IV: Brazil is trialing the CV-90’s again in 2023 partially for a new IFV but also to replace their stock of aging Leopard I tanks by using the same turret that the Centauro II used, because of that Brazil may get 2 variants (CV-90 Mk.IV & CV-90 MGS)
    *VT-4A1: Brazil Trialed at least one VT-A1 to replace their Leopard I tanks

Bolivia

Air:

  • Curtiss CW-14 Osprey: Started out as a civilian Aircraft, the Bolivians modified them to be a light bombers, equipped with forward firing and a defensive lmg’s as well as light bombs
  • Curtiss A-3 Falcon:
  • Hawk II:
  • Junkers W 34hi “Bombardero de Bush”:
  • Cavalier Mustang II: Postwar Ground Attack variant of the F-51D-20/30
  • Cl-133 Mk.3AT/AN: AT-33 built by Canadair, Bolivian Cl-133’s can use some armaments that other AT-33’s/Cl-133’s cannot like FFAR rocketpods for example

Uruguay

Air:

  • AT-33A

Ground:

Iraq (Iraqi Cascavels)

  • EE-9 Cascavel M1939 37mm
  • EE-9 Cascavel 2A28 “Grom”
  • EE-9 Cascavel M40A1
  • EE-9 Cascavel Type-63 MLRS

Camouflages

Aircraft

Spoiler

I.Ae 35 Huanquero

Spoiler

Unpainted Camo (starter)
52445568486_98f62fc846
Partially painted Camo (Researchable)
ia35-1
Tricolour Camo (Researchable)

I.Ae 24 Calquin (Late)

Spoiler

Unpainted Camo (Starter)
Bicolour Camo (Researchable)
f57347fd0f19125339aa479f2bb734dfa965ab03
A-58 Camo (GE)


A-69 (Yellow Stripe) Camo (GE)
cd8b0d9da3803c7adc57641f071573d7

F4U-5

Spoiler

Grey & Black Camo (Starter)
Vought-F4U-5-Corsair-ARA-2-Escuadrilla-Aeronaval-de-Ataque-3A202-and-3A301-Argentina-01
Navy Camo (Researchable): Refer to image above

F4U-5NL

Spoiler

Navy Camo (Starter)
Grey & Black with Blue nose Camo (Researchable)

Cavalier Mustang

Spoiler

Unicolour Camo (Starter)
1726048-FAB-511_x
Bicolour Camo (Researchable)
“What’s Up Doc” Camo (GE)
P-51CavalierCanada_4421994920

AX-04

Spoiler

The Second camo will be the starter while the rest will be researchable with the first camo only be unlockable with Naval Kills

IA-58A

Spoiler

EMB-312

Spoiler

Bicolour Grey & White camo (starter)


Orange and White camo (Researchable)

30 anniversary Toucan camo (GE)
cd48132profiles
Bicolour Grey Camo (Argentine Army Airforce)(Researchable)
Tucano-arg-1-1
Tricolour Green & Tan (Jungle) Camo (Researchable)

Peruvian Airforce Camo (Researchable)

Paraguayan Airforce Camo (GE)
tucano-paraguay-4

IA-58D

Spoiler

Unicolour Camo (Starter)
25 anniversary Camo (Researchable)


40 anniversary Camo (GE)

IA-58A (2nd Brigada Aerera)

Spoiler

Bicolour Camo (Starter)
Tricolour Camo (Researchable)
ia-58a Uruguay
Boarnose Camo (Researchable): Only unlockable by destroying Ground Targets

IA-63

Spoiler

IA-63 Pampa II

Spoiler

Bicolour Grey Camo (Starter)


3 tone Blue and White Camo (Researchable)

IA-63 Pampa III NG

Spoiler

Bicolour Grey Camo (Starter)


Bicolour Green-Grey Camo (Researchable)

IA-63 Pampa III NG Prototype/Testing skin (GE)

AF-1

Spoiler

Bicolour Grey Camo (Starter)
AF-1 (Brazil)_007
Falcão 15 Anniversary Camo (Researchable)
Already ingame as a Marketplace skin for the A-4B
“Free Kuwait” Skin (Researchable)

F-5EM

Spoiler

Tricolour Camo (Starter)
F-5M
Bicolour Grey & Green Camo (Researchable)

Q&A

Sources

7 Likes

Great job, this looks amazing.

I would quickly like to suggest the VCLC and TAM SXXI.

You could also add TH-301 as an event/premium.

I dream of having the EE-18 Sucuri II, the Osorio and the TAM in the same lineup

6 Likes

Hello. In general, it is a well-executed work.

Some general recommendations I would give are:

  • Add an illustration for each vehicle.
  • Add the nation to which it corresponds.
  • “Río de la Plata” in general refers to Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay. “Rio Uruguay” is the one that crosses Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay but it is completely anti-marketing xD
  • Correct “Nauhel” to “Nahuel”.
  • Add the Brazilian “M4 Repotenciado”.

Some queries:

  • What is a “Nahuel (E)”?
  • What is a “Repotenciado (W)”? New suspension?
  • What is a “TAM (211)”? TAM S21?

I don’t agree with certain things:

  • TAM-2IP has no way of being better than a TAM-2CA2, just by having some additional ceramics as armour. Both the TAM-2C and TAM-2CA2 are technologically superior by decades.

If you need help with the naval and coastal vessels of Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay or Latin America, let me know. Right now I will share this article with you: “Argentine Naval Technology Tree for Warthunder’s Bluewater”. There you can find an extensive PDF with lot of details.

Regards

4 Likes

With the TH-300 and TH-301 I have terrible rejection. They are ultimately the designs and prototypes made by Germany and that should be in THAT researchable tree.
On the other hand, their Argentine equivalents are respectively the TAM-A (or TAM-1), the first prototype, and the TAM-4, the series production model. These must be taken from Germany and put on a Latam researchable tree.
The differences between these are few, but they are more established in the German TH-301, which evolved better than the Argentine serial TAM, at least until the modernizations of TAM-S21.

Regards

1 Like

It’s simply a suggestion. The first prototype came with skirts, NVD, fuel tanks and snorkel (let’s say, with its accessories).

I remember reading that the first prototype came with a marder engine (less HP) and stabilized on a single axis, it could be a TAM with a lower BR.

TAM-4 I’m not sure, I think it is the “superior” export version sent to Thailand, without success, for testing, but there is a lot of ambiguity here and there are no clear sources on the matter.

TAM “211”, is a unit of RCTan8, which in an urban combat exercise used a different appearance. A TAM with cosmetics, as a premium, just like M1 KVT and other tanks with accessories.

Spoiler

TAM 2IP you are referring to, I assume, is a TAM 2C+IP. In short, IP is not a vehicle, but rather a shielding package designed to be applied to the TAM.

Spoiler

TAM+2A2

Many of us asked a long time ago (something similar was already done with the Ariete) to see a TAM that combines the technological solution + the armoring solution.

Edit: I would like to add that the 2CA2, and this latest version with improved protection, should fire LAHAT (clarification: the EA will not tell us if they have missiles or not, but the tank has the ability to fire them).

2 Likes

Thanks you for the clarifications.

TAM-A prototype. It’s like you say.

TAM-4 prototype, or pre-serie. The TAM-4 is the prototype that was serialized as it. In Germany it was called TH-301. The TH-301 with modifications was the one offered to Thailand and others.

For those who read this and do not know, between 1976-78 Germany made a technological transfer to Argentina, but since their local production had been rejected by the Argentine Army, then as a product of experience the German companies developed its tank in parallel.
Thus, the Argentine TAM-1 prototype (or TAM-A) is equivalent to the German TH-300 prototype and the Argentine TAM-4 prototype is equivalent to the German TH-301 prototype.
The issue is that Argentina stagnated and during the 1980s/1990s Germany continued working on these tanks for export, in turn competing against Argentina. During those decades both nations offered a similar tank; The Argentines sold it cheaper and with the basic technology and the Germans sold it more expensive and with improved technology (engine, protection, etc.).
The Cold War, the economic and financial crises, the blocs in the negotiations and the Governments finally meant that none of these countries completed a serial sale.

TAM-211. Nice to know!

TAM 2IP I mean this:

Spoiler

If the author of the tree refers to this version, then it is worse than a TAM-2C and a TAM-2CA2, because in the real world it is only a proposal for a slight improvement in protection capabilities. And nothing more.

2CA2+IP Now, the proposal you have is very attractive and I support it. Be it a 2C+IP or 2CA2+IP combination, it would be a fantastic vehicle. And now that I think about perhaps the author of this tree was referring to this tank as top tier instead.

Lahat. THAT would be fantastic.

Regards

2 Likes

I also imagine the same thing. There is no way that the 2IP is at the end of the line, it is a common TAM, with the Israeli armor.

Interesting to know! I always thought that the TH-300 was the German prototype of the VCTP.

I like the idea of a combined tree. But perhaps as you mentioned, the name chosen is not entirely representative.

1 Like

Some general recommendations I would give are:

  • Add an illustration for each vehicle.

I will add illustrations as soon as i add a couple of more vehicles and change and/or move some existing ones around

  • Add the nation to which it corresponds.

I will do that as well, even though i attempted to place all the Argentine & Uruguayan vehicles in one line and Brazilian vehicles (at least Light, Medium & Main battle tanks for ground and fighters for air), there is some overlap

  • “Río de la Plata” in general refers to Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay. “Rio Uruguay” is the one that crosses Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay but it is completely anti-marketing xD

If you have any ideas on a better TT name, i would like to hear it

  • Correct “Nauhel” to “Nahuel”.

Thanks for pointing that out, I’ll will fix that error

  • Add the Brazilian “M4 Repotenciado”.

Brazil never operated the M4 Repotenciado, only the M4A1 variant. Paraguay did operate the M4 Repotenciado however Paraguayan Repotenciado’s are identical to their Argentine counterpart so it will not be added due to redundancy

  • What is a “Nahuel (E)”?

It is a early variant of the Nahuel (it lacks a view port and has hull mounted lmg’s)

  • What is a “Repotenciado (W)”? New suspension?

It mean’s welded, however i am going to change it to “VC”, the (H) will be reclassified as “IC (Hybrid)”

  • TAM-2IP has no way of being better than a TAM-2CA2, just by having some additional ceramics as armour. Both the TAM-2C and TAM-2CA2 are technologically superior by decades.

I was referring to the TAM-2CIP prototype but what you stated is also correct. Because of that i will specify it is the TAM-2CIP, it will also be moved before the 2CAC & the regular TAM-2IP will be added as well, foldered with the 2C

Also i was wondering, can the VLEGA Gaucho mount a ATGM and/or AAM?

2 Likes

I mean this one

Spoiler


Federative Republic of Brazil (Cold War) - Tank Encyclopedia

It’s not exactly a sexy vehicle, but it can’t be missed.

1 Like

I found an interesting spaa operated by Uruguay

Ural 4320 (TCM-20)

Spoiler

2 Likes

Marrua can carry RBS 70 and RBS 70 NG. Gaucho can probably also carry manpads and tow. I’ve seen Humves with TOW.

Spoiler


imagem_2023-08-14_111757319
p1010054 b
marrua






Vehículo Militar VLEGA Gaucho (28 unidades) Créditos a quien corresponda.

I’ll leave you some others that come to mind…
Astros
Guaraní m-shorad
Gepard 1A2
VCLC
Sherman 105 with dozer
M7 priest

2 Likes

At LAAD 2023 I saw many new Brazilian toys. Maybe you could find something else there.

2 Likes

Good find. Also i’ll note that this TT proposal will have domestic UAV’s

as for the previous post i am going to add the VCLC, Guarani with the MSHORAD and the dozer blade will be a researchable upgrade for the welded Sherman 105

1 Like

Also here is one of the Iraqi Cascavels, more specifically the Cascavel with the 25mm autocannon

Also a TAM with mine-clearing equipment

HIOwZD0

2 Likes

Here is some images of the Guarani AAe (SAM variant)


2 Likes

Massive update:

Ground TT now has images now with the cards plus some massive changes

Tier I

  • Chevy 20mm autocannon is replaced with the Yacare Tractor 20mm autocannon

Tier II

New vehicles

  • CRM (BT-90/37)(TT) & CRR-M8 (Premium): Both are Cascavel prototypes with some minor changes hull wise, the turret is the main difference, the CRM uses a turret from the X1A but retains the 37mm while the CRR uses a modified M8 Greyhound turret

Tier III

New vehicles

  • M4A1 Repotenciado
  • EE-11 Urutu (HB60)
  • AMX Mk F3 155mm SPH
  • Ural 4320 (TCM-20)
  • M113 CITEFA (Premium)
  • EE-9 Cascavel (M1939)(Event): Iraqi modified Cascavel

Tier IV

New vehicles

  • Urutu Hydracobra
  • OT-64 (M40)
  • VCTP
  • Panhard VCR AA
  • 2S1 (Premium)
  • EE-9 Cascavel (2A28 Grom)(Squadron): Iraqi modified Cascavel

Other changes

  • Uruvel is now specified to the Uruvel M5
  • ERC-90 no longer paired with the Mowag (HS-90), Both Mowags paired together now

Tier V

New vehicles

  • M41A1UR
  • EE-9 Cascavel Mk.III (ET-95): Cascavel variant intended for the Iraqi Army but built in Brazil, because of that it will be a TT vehicle
  • M109A5+
  • Flakpanzer Gepard 1A2
  • EE-9 Cascavel (M40A1)(Squadron): Iraqi modified Cascavel
  • EE-9 Cascavel (Type-63)(Event): Iraqi modified Cascavel
  • TAM VCLC (Premium)
  • TAM Prototype (Pre-order)

Other changes

  • Order and BR changed on some vehicles

Tier VI & VII

New vehicles

  • TAM-2CIP
  • VLEGA Gaucho (TOW-2+RBS-70)
  • VLEGA Chivnuk (SIATT)
  • EE-9 M2 SIMDABA
  • VBTP-MR Guarani AAe
  • TAM Mine Clearer (Premium)
  • TAM S.XXI (Squadron)

Other changes

  • Order and BR changed on some vehicles
  • TAM 2IP now paired with TAM-2C
1 Like

P-95B Bandeirulha with rocketpods and 127mm unguided rockets


Gemb111-3

Argentina also operated the Embraer E111, also since Argentine E111 still retain the ability to use hardpoints it is possible for it to use armaments, i am not sure what specific armaments though

E111

1 Like

Uruguayan airforce Ro.37bis

ro37bis

1 Like

Brazilian Airforce RP-47B

Brazilian Navy Fairely Gordon, Brazil operated wheeled and floatplane variants of the Gordon but i going to pick the floatplane variant exclusively

1 Like

Uruguayan Naval Air Arm TBF-1C Avenger.

avenger03

I tried to look for images for the Hawk II & Junkers K/W-43hi operated by Bolivia and images for the Avenger AS.4 operated by Brazil but i am unable to find any. For the former 2 aircraft they were used in the Grand Chaco war against Paraguay. The German equipment supplied to
Bolivia was largely due to Bolivia’s close ties to Germany. As for the Latter, all i know that it was most likely Ex RAF (and/or Ex RNZAF) Avengers since the sole aircraft carrier that Brazil operated during the time the “Minas Gerais” was originally first a Royal Navy aircraft carrier the “HMS Vengeance” via the Royal Australian Navy

1 Like