Revised poll on CAS in Ground Battles, would you play a tank only mode?

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
103

I never said real life is balanced, i said it is balanced vompared to real life. I.e. it portrays the real life “balance” of these types of vehicles.

Wait… what? Why should they even be balanced? CAS is designed to kill ground targets. Tanks are NOT designed to kill air targets. There shouldn’t be balance.

Then i have good news for you. You aren’t.
Since you are not operating the tank.
You are more like a navigation system than the operator of that vehicle.

You also completely missed the point of my post. Ignored it completely and now just use it to whine about your typical point towards me.

I made a post about gamemode destinction and why it matters, and your reaction does not even mention it.

105

Oh don’t be condescending…

One is an air unit designed to kill ground units the other is a ground unit not(!) Designed to kill air units. Why should it be a fair fight? CAS vs. SPAA is another matter. Even though what balance? Should it represent real life or does it have to be fair?

Of course this is the general section, so again no definitive answer can be given. But fairness in sim doesn’t make sense, there it should represent the real life dynamic. Arcade should be fair… RB? Well…

If tanks vs. Planes would always be balanced 1:1 SPAA would be unnecessary.

But yeah don’t answer the actual points, if you can just throw ad hominems… does look stupid though

1 Like
106

I feel like i need to post this clip to this thread :P Not all CAS is OP or even slightly dangerous

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZnBEIas_Oc

107

VIDEO GAME

Of course this is the general section, so again no definitive answer can be given. But fairness in sim doesn’t make sense, there it should represent the real life dynamic. Arcade should be fair… RB? Well…

VIDEO GAME

If tanks vs. Planes would always be balanced 1:1 SPAA would be unnecessary.

VIDEO GAME

THIS IS NOT REAL LIFE. IT IS A VIDEO GAME.

3 Likes
108

In real life CAS was very ineffective against tanks. In game, CAS is massively OP.

It should be balanced because it’s a video game, this is the only ground mode, and aircraft have a dedicated air mode.

Semantics. We are the operator. We drive, aim and fire the tank.

3 Likes
109

Based on real of systems and already tweaked in order to be somehow balanced

→ saying that this a is a Video game, would have been an argument if the whole game vehicules and systems were fictionnal → they’re not fictionnals

Therefore speaking of Video games, is like wanting to have every aircraft of same BR sharing 1 single Flight model/Damage models/systems/… anything else

→ it is impossible since the game is based on Real and Physical abilties.

Therefore, having CAS being superior to your SPAAM systems isn’t going to make me rage, because it is normal.

Aircraft are moving into 3D coordinates

Ground vehicules are moving into 2.5D coordinates, as they can choose where they go in X/Y axis, but are limited to what terrain gives it in terms of Z axis

Also about speed differentials between Tanks and Planes.

Just because of that, you should understand that:

AIRCRAFTS > GROUND VEHICULE

And this completely Disregard the caracteristics and weaponnary.

An aircraft even a P-26 peashooter, have the ability to sneak up onto Pantsir S1 and destroy it

Meanwhile, a M13 GMC doesn’t have the ability to destroy a MiG-29, if the aircraft choose not to get in the range of your weapons.

And this is Fact,… Aircraft have the abiltiy to choose what/when/where/how they want to attack you.

SPAAG and SPAAM systems always were Designed to be DEFENSIVE systems

When i do see many SPAAG firing at maximum range, instead of letting ennemy aircraft to close in order to increase kill probability i know most people in the game aren’t using their SPAAG as Defensive but as Aggressive systems instead.

You can drop whatever miss balance,… i just proved to you that CAS always will have upper hand.

1 Like
110

The Video game being a Video game, it is fully mouse controlled

It is very different from being Stick controlled in terms of precisions.

111

A video game that wants to be realistic.

And you still didn’t read properly. So if tanks are balanced against cas. What’s the point of spaa?

It’s a rock paper scissors situation and you want your choice to be able to win against anything…

So if CAS balanced against tanks and weak against spaa, that wouldn’t be fair to CAS either.

2 Likes
112

The historic ineffectiveness of CAS is due to the complexity of controlling an aircraft. This complexity does exist in WT just not in every mode.

CAS is not massively OP in WT. Maybe RB or AB but not WT in general (and ibrepeat this is the general section, so thing need to apply in general).

1 Like
113

The major problem in planes > tanks it is the lack of “strategic” air defense.

In hight tiers:
We fight on ground with tactical anti-air cover but planes fight with long range weapons and that threats are normaly (IRL)trated with heavy long range missiles complex who can cover the battlefield to 300km, out of range of weapons carried by planes actualy in the game.

But in the game we have only tactical SPAA used IRL for shooting down helicopters or short range target (like CAS).

We have “luck” in game: majority of CAS players dont use correctly theire planes and theire weapons.

And all of that, in hight tiers, without counting the DEPLORABLE guidance of missiles which, before the “La Royale” update, were slightly more effective against aircraft.

In low tiers:
It is just the lack of tubes for saturing the air against planes due to the lack of aiming help.
IRL SPAA batteries are ever just 1 or 2 vehicles alones but they are 4 or 5 on 1 ou 2km for create a plomb wall against planes.

In game, we have rarely that numbers of SPAA in the same time and without aiming help, the efficiency are to low for counter correctly planes.

1 Like
114

Long range SAM systems are the first to be hit by Long Range cruising missiles,…
There is no land combat until there is a way to deploy troops safely

Even in Libya in the early 2010’s, NATO Coalition used Tomahawk missile to suppress most SAM sites, and the remaining tactical SPAAG/SPAAM were destroying by the use of specific flight armed with AIM-88 HARM.

The long range systems therefore aren’t realistic in such high intensity combat that War Thunder is based on.

So that point mostly is discussable,… but this is a complete new topic.

Mostly because of:

→ ODL
→ no-aiming technology
→ Tank-Only enjoyers
→ ability to destroy tanks with SPAAG guns (at very low tier, even some 20mm is enough to destroy up to some Medium Tanks)

In such we agree on 1 point → AA defences today are depleted, but mostly because of players unwilling to use those systems.

1 Like
115

Well, we don’t have :
General side (both tanks and planes):
We don’t have Headquarters, CAS coordinator,… → the whole Modern army structure of leading and information

Aircraft side
→ pre-mission or in flight mission Briefing

→ we have still have to work our attack navigation, in order to avoid Ground object, defend from SPAAG/SPAAM when those exists, choose weaponnary, calculating our bomb drop when we do not own CCIP/CCRP systems (so every aircrafts under 8.0, and many others up to 11.0 for some nations)

→ we also have to think about not doing Teamkill by bombs
→ AGM’s / Guided Bombs:
. → SACLOS (manual guidance) ones are inneffective at long/medium range because of low precision
. → LASER ones are limited to follow the laser, in which aircrafts can’t go for hardenned evasive maneuvers, therefore we can be intercepted by CAP aircrafts
. → TV homing is ineffective at Night, and somehow affected by clouds
. → IR homing (AGM only) is the currently the most effective ones

116

Way to have a reading comprehension moment. You would have agreed with me…

117

I’m not agreeing with you,…

118

I’m saying CAS isnt currently balanced and that aircraft should be more balanced in ground modes. Real life arguments don’t hold sway in a video game.

2 Likes
119

No you are not.

You only have indirect control. You do not aim at all, you tell the instructor where to aim and it aims. Otherwise you would control turret rotation speeds yourself… you don’t.

This is a delusion nothing more.

120

You believe you communicate with little men inside a video game tank and call me delusional.

2 Likes
121

I say CAS never will be balanced, after i followed/read what you wrote.

I bring you argument that are the opposite of what you explainned, wanted,…
And proved it with Facts,…

Therefore calling on Video Game arguments make no sense,… because the argument i used is viable being IRL or In-Game,…

You’re thinking wrong around what is CAS and why balance should exist, because it can’t exist, that’s what i proved today.

But seeing your late answer just remembered me, that you’re fanatically trying to IMPOSE your sight on this game, despite it being wrong, and proved yourself to be impossible to debate with.

122

And that is true. Changing the current mode will only result in both sides being unhappy. The only real way of creating a balance is to provide a mode for just tanks and then changing the current Ground RB into a proper combined mode where all sides can start from the beginning and enjoy that gameplay

6 Likes
123

The way these threads end up with people so desperate to propose thier ‘solutions’ that it merely ends up in a spam situation, and a ‘how dare you oppose me, you must be someone who does this!’ ending, is just silly and a good reason as to why it’s impossible to fix.

After all, if it’s not actually fixable, then maybe it’s actually not broken…