What? You are shuffling around in the discussion and moving far from the point again.
Again, you showed what can be done and showed SPAA take down air, just like bombs kill tanks and air cannon take down aircraft.
This is not complicated.
You said that I have proved that SPAA works and by going with Your standards of how I proved it, I asked You a question
As much fun as a “battle of semantics” is it is not helping support a TO.
Question with a question. I’ll pass. No rabbit holes young man.
We are not going around the houses to play semantics on the word “works”. I know you enjoy it (battle of semantics) but it is not being proactive.
Sorry but I will be waiting for You to answear about M2A4 ;)
I don’t answer silly questions used to avoid reasonable discussion, especially “question with a question”, it is poor etiquette. Unless you wish to explain how that is relevant? I quite happily used the AEC II up to 7.3ish and “it works” there, especially considering my use of it. But that is irrelevant.
Again, semantics regarding the word “works”.
What does not work is doing nothing about it. A bit like most TO topics.
We are not talking about BR placement, are we?
Well, for a low BR vehicle it does work higher up, it does not deserve to be 5.0 however. As per my AEC II use.
It is about how you use a vehicle.
And still a silly question.
The question was to highlight that ‘works’ doesn’t mean ‘is effectve’ which some people think it is.
Why SPAA (Talking about 1.0 - 8.0 B.R. range) is not effective? It comes to many things like:
- Aircraft has to be inside Your effective range in order for You to be able to fight against it. While when You are using the air, You can chase him down and not allow him to get even near the battlefield.
- When You are in SPAA You are vulnerable to the attacks of both ground and air units. While when You are using the air, You are just fighting against the air, unless You come near enemy SPAA (Your own fault).
- When there are no planes, in most cases You just sit there without beign able to do much and if You don’t die You can’t use other vechicle. While when You are using the air, You can land on the airport and leave the vechicle without death penalty.
- When You are using SPAA, especially when it is open-top, You can die to things that land near You (bombs/rockets). While when You are using t he air, enemy has to hit You with his guns as You have to do that too (Not talking about top tier)
- When You are using SPAA, You have little to no chance against things like PE-8 as You are mostly not able to effectively shoot it down. While when You are using the air, You can just hunt him down.
SPAA are just not effective in Ground Battles especially when You can use air instead. Not to mention the earnings of SP, RP and SL in planes and SPAAs.
Now for TO:
Why adding TO would benefit everyone? Because people who are not happy with current state of things (about air) could play in that mode while GF RBs mode would be for people who love the combined concept. What it would mean:
- No more nerfs just because gaijin is trying to balance things out.
- No more people leaving the game because they died to the air.
- All people would be prepared for the air, meaning that Your team would always have someone to deal with it.
And then GF RBs mode could be made into truely combined gamemode meaning:
- Allowing planes to start from the beginning.
- Bigger maps where objectives could not be only about capping a zone.
- Game changed into more of RB EC like.
This is why I support TO, because it would be healthy for the game.
Couldn’t write it before, as I don’t like typing on the phone that much.
11 Likes
From my understanding its really only the high tiers that really have problems with it, mid can be a little annoying but even my self have chosen another tank from my line up as i actully find the battlefield sonsmall compared to ARB
Bro, we also know that HE keeps popping late thus sometimes only getting a hit. Was working so perfectly when it popped above tanks and not behind it where does no damage for some time and also propped right next to planes instead of behind the plane some year ago. Then Gaijin messed with it again.
I would be for it but not because CAS OP, not because SPAAG are useless, not because people are crying that they getting bombed each game and refuse to counter them, not because one can abuse certain playstyle. If the reasons for TO were different like without the crying about CAS, I would be all for it. Right now, only reason I see is to stop CAS. If ya shared more about making it as an event, making it like Call of Duty playstyle (cuz thats was TO will look, not like a battlefield), new game modes like those other games, maybe actually adding a D zone, something besides no CAS, maybe where a tank has to carry a flag from one point to another etc etc… I would be ok with it. I won’t play that mode, but least was not added out of crying about CAS but for a fun reason. Will be hard to change my mind about it now since thats the energy im getting, wrong approach for a TO mode.
Have to remember its a team based game, one can carry but without the support of the team, ya won’t make it to victory. If more players used SPAAG/anti-CAS planes, CAS would’nt be an issue. I saw your screenshots ULQ, mostly see you doing all the anti-CAS work, but no one else did. Its just you doing it out of 16 players. Im always alone doing it too. Makes it hard when there is no support from the team. Seen games where its loaded with 7+ planes, not 1 player used a SPAAG correctly, when they were on one, they decide to shoot tank with it. And when I used it, bye bye planes till one sees me on time and tries to take me on. But I at least reduced the amount of CAS planes and stopped them bombing the next tank. Then both SPAAG/Plane player will go back to using tank or one will leave for using so much SP just to use plane and have no more for another tank. Every plane shot down is another few tanker saved.
A 155mm HE should damage planes from more than 10m away.
Here is a russian report on the effectiveness of ABT-101 (line 4), and steel (line 1).
At 30m, you still need 15mm steel to block said fragments, yet planes just shrug it off from closer range while they have no armor. The thing they have is like canvas, or some very thin metal.
Also do not forget that an 57mm HE shell hitting a thin armored tank/open top will kill all of it’s crew, yet same shell hitting a plane somehow does not overpressure all the crew. It might “destroy” the plane, but it is very likely that said plane will still be able to shoot…
Maybe i am getting it wrong, but is your argument that since a real battlefield has planes up, then WT ground should also have it?
Because that is just a stupid argument.
For example, since long range AA systems were developed (so what? '60s, '70s), in game there should be 50-100km range SAM systems on every battle where aircraft are.
And, since there were battles with little to no airplanes involved, this argument instantly falls apart.
This especially falls apart, when we consider that Naval mode also has planes, yet there have been battles where planes played no, or just limited role:
Yeah. Now there are 6 SPAAs instead of 1, while the enemy CAS is outside their effective range… Great.
Now that team is in an even bigger disadvantage, because a sigle CAS can annihilate half a team, they are also in a disadvantage of 6 players… Not like CAS can’t just kill those SPAA anyway…
2 Likes
Chat gpt is not a source.
The battle of Heligoland Bight (1939)
It’s an air battle, do your own damn research. Chat gpt got confused with the 1914 one which was a naval battle. (which didn’t even feature tanks)
Now I’m doubting the legitimacy of the other “proof” you posted.
All it takes is 1 minute to check and see if that stuff is even real.
Were those planes used?
EDIT:
Even if that one is false, if there is a single battle in history, where planes were in service, yet they did not take part of a battle, it is a proof of my argument, and a proof against the original argument.
I know O-Ho that wasn’t my point i was making.
god id give gaijin real money again if theyd add this
What’s wrong in trying to get a game mode without planes ?
I don’t see a reason why TO should only be an event and not a permanent mode.
This game is pretty much already Call of Thunder in which 32 players indulge in massive knife fights on post-stamp sized maps more often than not, while fighting over circles that most of the times hold no real value besides being a ticket bleed machine.
Mode without CAS would actually be less of a “CoT” since you’ll remove one power-up mechanic, which is typical to have in CoD.
5 Likes
That was a lot of effort to get there in the end. However it was me using the word work and in my interpretation, not theirs, it works. Lets not go around the houses next time, ok?
The rest, (the breakdown of TO idea) nicely put.
That’s the second time I got you to put all that on paper, if I recall from other threads (reading your reply reminded me we been there before). A much more productive attitude missing from most opening topics (mods are off break so back to enforcing the forum rules many posters do not read, so no wonder no one listens to those).
Now just need to pop that to the devs, with maybe a tiny bit more fleshing out, but without all the whining that provokes arguments over opinion. Then you can show you did the work, you tried, then see the answer.
Good to see something productive, even if I keep ending up being the one pushing (again) 👍 Provocation hasn’t done many favors.
1 Like
It is called a compromise, with the Devs due to their argumentation on the subject (the only counter argument that matters).
BUT the issue there is this Suggestion is already Passed to Devs so probably won’t be accepted again (even if it has gathered dust for YEARS).
If anyone wants to trawl through the old forum Passed section it would be worth linking it here to see how that idea was given more notice than a seperate mode suggestion.
That is literally all you will get with ULQ
It’s not being a grammar nazi if it’s so bad you can’t properly make out what he is trying to say. He was the one who said they were trying a new translator, I suggested he try a different one/the old one.
Oh, said guy who comes to talk about sweating over stats because he has nothing more to say.
Next time please read more than few words and we can have a discussion.
1 Like