Sorry, no it doesnt, It only happens when the person firing the missile is careless or fires it in a really stupid position. There is maybe 1 in every 10000 times when it is absolutely not the person who fired its fault for that teamkill. Now that still might be an “accident”, but an accident caused by carelessness is just as bad as intent.
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Car accidents only happen when a driver is careless and doesn’t pay attention.
An “accident” is something that doesn’t happen intentional by definition. Whether it’s because of carelessness or being braindead doesn’t make it any different, it is still accidental.
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You should be punished for both.
Also not always, but yes the majority of the time, and when it is one party’s fault, they are punished for it.
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Neh I shoot a R-27ER from 100m altitude to a enemy 5000m altitude at the front and 10km apart. And the missile went like 60 degrees left in to the ground and hit the friendly who is like at 50m altitude and 4km far from me. This has been happening like 3-4 times since the update and i don’t think I’m responsible for that carelessness
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I feel as though the ‘intent’ isn’t carried by the automated detection…
Such as one time I had 2 players pin me and artillery me, and keep artillerying me every artillery they obtained…
I doubt they were picked up, but they were using that to TK and actually cause issues.
And even when it’s raised as to how this sort of action impacts my gameplay it’s generally downplayed.
With this ‘requirement’ of me having to break my gameplay, and go into the server replay to highlight that in any way that’s going to be effective, I see that as being a hinderance to me, and I don’t think anything will come of it, meanwhile the people responsible keep playing on.
(Edit - And it’s SO HARD to even bring myself to even try TK… Like, damn…)
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No.
I used to be an instructor in the Swiss Army, and we have trained with four very simple rules to prevent shooting accidents:
- Never aim at something you don’t want to hit
- Always assume your weapon is loaded and armed
- Always be sure about the consequences of your shot
- Finger always “long” (not on the trigger) unless you actually want to shoot
Any shooting accident I’ve heard of during my service and after, were a result of not just one, but all of those points being neglected by the shooter, and this negligence always led to legal repercussions.
Yes, like in a car, accidents don’t “just happen”! I might be tired, and misjudge my ability to drive. I might slip because I misjudged the road conditions. I might have a brake failure because I neglected to send my car to service regularly, or the guy maintaining my car neglected to service my car correctly.
Real accidents by things I as a driver have no control over directly or indirectly, are rare. Maybe a boulder flattening me on a mountain road…
Those points all also are valid here in the game, and underline the view that accidents do not happen, but are caused:
If I aim a missile at the space where both friends and enemies are present, I have to accept the possibility that my missile may lock onto the Blue guy instead of the red. So I don’t fire in such a situation.
I keep my fingers off my trigger if I have a friendly in sight.
I make sure that there is no friendly around that might move into a position that my shot can endanger him (this I think is the most difficult one to achieve, especialy in the game where many may chase the same target, all greedily wantong to get the kill.
I make sure I really have the target correctly identified as an enemy, and am not shooting a friend.
And - again an admission here - also ALL TK’s I have caused, without exception, were caused by me not heeding those rules enough, misidentification of the enemy being the most common cause in my case, I think, followed by daring to fire at an enemy in merged situations… So not something that “happened to me”, but something “I did”.
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Absolutely the same here, teamkills happen, and i have caused several of them over the years, and should be punished for them. How else do you get people to learn to try their utmost to avoid them in the future
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I think you are aware of the major flaw of the automated teamkill tracking and ban system (allowed amount of tks too high to get a temporary game ban) but the “improvement” with this “apology” function works only if the teamkiller uses the “apology” button.
If he does nothing - nothing happens in the match.
If you don’t believe me:
- I got teamkilled twice on 19.09.2023. Both times by the same piece of ****.
- First time right after spawn and the second time in order to deny me a kill. This b*stard changed his gamertag between 1st (16:36) and 2nd teamkill (23:40) flying a Wyvern.
In both cases the teamkiller continued playing, racking up 6 kills in the fist match and 2 more (to a total of 5) after the 2nd teamkill.
There was no “kick” from the match
The 2 replays as evidence:
Teamkill right after air spawn 6 kills in Wyvern - 19.09.- 16:36:
Teamkilled right after spawn
Teamkilled after 8:30 by the same guy 19.09. - 23:40
Teamkill in order to deny kill - griefing
So i recommend either you dump this apology stuff or you change the game so that the apology is sent out automatically.
Otherwise it is useless as only “honorable” players with actual teamkills by accident using the “apology” button might get kicked, whilst intentional teamkillers ignoring the “apology” button get away unpunished.
I mean what do you expect? Should players check all own players before spawning in - in order to identify players you blocked as you know they are teamkilllers?
I see teamkills in props more often as griefing (Wyverns kill other Wyverrns to deny a base kill or fighters teamkill own fighters in order to deny them a kill); in rarer cases as “self justice” for alleged kill steals…
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Another one that tends to happen is launching artillery on a cap that the enemy is decapping, then a friendly takes out the enemy capper, rushes cap themselves, and gets killed by your artillery. When it happens to me (as in, I’m on the receiving end of that), I shrug it off, because it was done with the intent to win this thing, and I like that competitive spirit, it usually helps the team more than the opposite. So, yeah. Of course mistakes are as serious as their consequences, but not all mistakes are born equal.
The new system is better in the sense that team kills aren’t treated the same and there is no automatism, but worse in that now one team kill can be enough to be kicked.
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Yet, in WT, I shoot a missile at a target away from me… while missile is in the air, target dies and while he is a fireball, the game considers him dead and he has no more heat signature. Missile will automatically reacquire someone, which it would not of gone for otherwise - but having no more target, it will go for a friendly.
This isn’t real world - this is a game. This requires “game rules” and not a 25 year to life prison sentence in front of a judge and jurors because you’re trying to win a game.
Putting a 1 TK = kick mechanic in a game is kind of silly, and I can’t think of any game which has done so. It only causes that instead of having 1 unhappy guy, you now have 2. What’s the point in that?
You can’t avoid all accidental team kills in a 16vs16 missile slinging game. At the same time, you can’t remove team damage either, because that will just make the chaos worse/less controlled as people will just spam their missiles without thought. But same, 1 TK = kick is silly, this is a game. Punishment is there in terms of SL loss, maybe they could do something along the lines of a heavier fine for the first TK, and this apology system for anything subsequent.
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I got a TK once because the missile autopilot whilst tracking an enemy player just happened to cross near a player flying the opposite direction and triggered the proximity fuse.
And often enough missiles will switch track onto player that fly between you and the target.
The big issue here is the high player count in matches, you can’t keep track of all that and so genuine accidents do happen where no one is really at fault
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As I said, I need to inquire about this. I also agree that this would be suboptimal…
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I got your points regarding missiles but the root cause for 2 unhappy guys relies clearly with the teamkiller; so the point of fast and immediate punishment is quite convincing for me - if this new “feature” would work.
From my pov this whole teamkilling discussion is an anachronism - more or less everything besides the shape and skins of vehicles in wt is fantasy, fiction or imagination. Even in case we assume that some vehicles might be modelled correctly – the history of countless open or hidden nerfs/buffs within war thunder is proving that realism is highly subjective and needs to be adjusted if they see the need to do so.
So gaijin’s argument that they want to keep teamkills in Air RB as a part of realism is actually very weak - the fellow players in tanks need arty or planes to kill friendly tanks as tanks can’t kill friendly tanks, but in Air RB realism is different to Ground RB realism as planes can kill friendly planes?
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Removing team damage in ARB would be silly because everyone will just hold trigger down and launch 5000 missiles right between all friendlies… it’s like that in AB already. Abuse of friendly fire needs to simply be controlled by a system which makes sense.
I don’t play tanks, if they don’t have friendly fire, it’s odd for RB. I’m totally against that because it also leaves a little space for self moderation to get rid of people only there to harm their own team.
There’s always 2 sides for friendly fire, on one side it can be abused when enabled, on the other side, it can also be abused when disabled (ie. you can completely block friendly from firing/playing at all, or push them around a corner in tanks to get slapped by enemy and they have no way to do anything back to you). Similarly, it can be used positively when enabled too (remove some obvious person from session actively sabotaging the team), but you can also end up with a person blasting 2 people back to hangar right off the runway.
I still prefer the old system over this new one, or maybe it should be some combination of both.
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I wasn’t around when TK was a thing in ground RB, but I seem to understand that it was really, really bad. Especially because some open-topped tank destroyers or SPAAs, especially tiny vehicles like M56 or ASU 57, can be killed with a single burst of machine gun fire.
Could have just made a control mechanism. Like 2TK=kick from session… but what I do find odd, is that TKs don’t carry over to next session…
You could for example make 2TK=kick but in a way that it remembers the TK for, I dunno, 3-5 sessions? Like… TK happened in session 1, nothing in session 2, 3, and another TK in session 4 and as a result I got kicked. This gives a little room for accidents, while also restricting abuse.
@Schindibee , maybe such system would be better suited for this game?
But that is exactly what the algorithm does, and does like this since the whole TK algorithm was introduced: It remembers and compares current, recent and past TK’s in connection with number of spawns to decide whether a kick is enough or the player actually gets a game ban and for what length.
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Um, you had that already in WT naval. If you accidentally kill a friendly plane, you are kicked immediately out of game and into hangar lobby. No second chance, no chance to apologize. It’s been that way for years. Straight to a game over.
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Booted from a game, because my AGM-65 is choosing a completely different target sounds really nice.
Already got this situation 2 times prior to the patch.
Just lovely when the launched AGM-65 is more attracted to a friendly instead of the locked & launched on one - 350m away.
Imo, there’s a difference in accidentally and intentionally accidents.
Sure, an accident is still an accident, but the amount of punishment should be differentiated.
There’s a difference between slamming into a car, wich is in your way, without giving a F about it, or trying to avoid it by breaking.
As far as Schindibee states those “gun firing safety rules”, its just not that simple.
As someone who served for over a decade in the military there’s smth simple i want to add:
In reality you wouldn’t step in front/LOS of an already firing friendly machine gun.
If you would do so, it’s not only the Gunner to blame for.
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But how to reliably detect if it’s intentional or accidental?