Remove Pay-to-Win Bushes

0_0 Blink Blink I just read that and still questioned everything you just said which can be summed down into 3 words.
Bush is Bad.

To add further context, the “Bush Is Bad” cause takes away from skilled players. However does not take into consideration that bushes level out the skill gap between a seasoned veteran vs someone who practically came out of Air Force, Navy, or Tanker AIT(Advanced Individual Training).

If that’s all you got out of that essay of a post I just put up, you aren’t arguing in good faith. Resorting to a strawman immediately is not a good first approach to an argument.

It takes away from seasoned players. It doesn’t take skill to unlock bushes, just time and effort. Skilled players are still marginalized because it’s their skill that’s being made irrelevant.

So bushes are a crutch? Why shouldn’t the more skilled player have the advantage in a fight? It’s a competitive game, it’s expected that players who learn the game will have an advantage over newer players. The solution to a skill gap here isn’t the kneecap the capable players, it’s to encourage the newer players to learn the game too, whilst encouraging experienced players to play higher tiers and sheltering complete novices with their own queue, which are things War Thunder mostly does (It could improve the tutorials admittedly).

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How about adding a mechanic, which allows you to conceal your tank if you next to foliage, similar to crew-replenishment, just in a longer time duration? Current bush users still dont’t have to do this at a start of battle, wasting like two minuts, and free to plays have a chance if they want to, while peventing the game of becaming a botanic garden simulator. Because let’s face, with free bushes almost everyone would be using them.
To be honest bushes are the most unfair to new players. They don’t have rank 3-s so they struggle with the battlepass which means they have really hard way of getting them. I don’t really care about bushes anymore, but there are still an ocasional tank that my braine refuse to see because it convinced that nah that’s just a bush.

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There is a difference between balancing and giving one side an advantage. Ex: If one side is more inexperienced while the other isn’t how do you balance this out answer you don’t.
Bushes in this case help balance it out simply because people like myself need to rely on figuring out if that’s a bush or not. If it isn’t then we are dead.

Trying to claim that experienced players should have the advantage would imply that a majority of matches would be in their favor. It’s bringing 4 M60 GPMG’s vs 80 Horsemen. The 80 Horsemen will not win.

There are ways. Not nessesarily skill based matchmaking, but also skill based team balancing. Ensuring that teams end up with approximately equal overall winrates would go a long way to helping reduce blowouts. This is far preferable to the current system as you see it, where skilled players are gimped by dumbing down gameplay to the point that unskilled players can kill them regardless of poor play.

There are dozens upon dozens of factors already at play which limit the extent that good players can carry. Are they uptiered, how’s their lineup at that tier, are they stock, does the map allow their lineup to excel, does their usual playstyle gel with the lineup/map, and most importantly of all, how’s their team? If a good player ends up on a bad enough team, it doesn’t really matter how much game impact they have, if they’re 1v12 there’s no level of skill that will consistently turn that game around.

Game balance is (ancedotally) only at risk for skill levels when one team ends up with far better players on average than another. The snowball effect kicks in and erodes the weaker team’s numbers too fast for any good player on the weaker team to turn the tide.

More directly though, I fail to see how adding bushes would balance out this skill issue, when most bushed players (And especially the 6 bush pack users) will tend to be more experienced, and thus tend to be more skilled. Nor do teams balance based on bush usage. It’s just adding another random variable to the MM that may benefit or hurt skilled players, depending on where the bushed tanks end up.

I fail to see how bushes aren’t benefiting both sides. One more thing what you explained in your entire college grade essay was a over explained Skill based match making or as i know it the sweat shop. I won’t go into details why.

Some of your tanks have a birthday cake on top of your turret, and then some have a dirt bike, and then we have some put a yellow siren light to tell everyone he was right there so shoot him, I mean do you even camouflage bro?

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Who are you talking to?

You should really stop playing WT at the moment and come back when you anger is done. if you can’t stand out bushes don’t play top tier battles where bushes on verhicles are common. Bushes don’t give much advantage only little bit advantage depend on the verhicle you are using. I don’t see bushes moving around in desert or urban maps. You can spot bushes if they stand on places where not bushes and trees around.

Even if it benefits me to put on bushes, I still don’t enjoy the gameplay that results, as I already said in my original post. Both sides (Assuming you mean skilled and unskilled) also do not benefit equally, as the unskilled likely either wouldn’t ID the tank, or not know what to do with the ID if they had it.

Which is why I explicitly went out of my way to talk about skill based team balancing instead. Players won’t be nearly as sweaty if they still have a chance to face weaker opponents. I’m just tired of being the only one on my team willing or able to put in a decent effort, while the enemy team has no such shortage. But that’s getting off topic.

Accusing me of not being in control of my emotions, then assuming I haven’t played top tier, and then condescendingly explaining that you don’t think bushes are a problem, therefore they aren’t one, while also completely missing all of the points I made in my original post. Not the strongest start to an argument I’ve ever seen.

Def not a sla, I took pictures of a 2p and a 2h, I dont remember which of those two it is tho

They are doing as intended, hiding the tank. the whole purpose of them is to increase survivability.

There is this theory called camouflage, and with this theory nations have painted their vehicles to make them harder to visually detect. Now with this theory soldiers in they field would enhance ( this means to make better ) their camouflage to help break of the silhouette of the tank to hide it, or camouflage it better.
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There are 6 slots on tanks to add decorations. This limit prevents someone rolling around in a MBT covered with bushes. since there is limited amount of spaces to use, most people dont bother putting them over their engine areas which has the hottest thermal spot. People put it on the front to hide the weak spots but there are no buses on the side, the back or the top of the tank due to slots being used on the front. Not all engagements are head on.

How are they not fair? They are available to everyone, ether by warbond shop, or GE. If you dont like bushes, dont use them. If you cant afford to buy them this is not the communities problem. If you are getting killed with tanks that have bushes on them, its not the bushes that causing you to die thats a tactical error on your part. Have i gotten killed from tanks covered in bushes? yup and i didnt see them until i watched the kill cam. They had good camo and had the better position to kill me. Was it because of the bush on the tank? no it was my fault for getting into that position with out looking, or because i was rushing in. Not one argument in this thread shows why bushes need to be removed. People finding the one thing to complain about because they got killed and think they are better at this game than they are.

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Maybe if those who oppose bushed didn’t use the stupid pay to win phrase then people might take their argument a bit more seriously.

Pay to win symbolizes a tramp who complains about the state of the soup in a soup kitchen. Its a free game for those who contribute zero financially to keep it running.

Who wants to hear from free to play player bitching about a game they don’t pay for? Criticizing those who do as wallet warriors?

The fact is also that those who don’t pay have no experience of the things they are bitching about so why listen to them?

And the end result is this: What do the F2P people want Gaijin to do about all those who bought anything ever in the game? refund it all? Bushes, Premiums ,Backups ,Packs? Camos? All the P2W advantage from 12 years past?

If you don’t like your F2P game then nothing stops you leaving it, you have spent so money so go. If bushes are such a game winner, then they should be worth you are making a one of spend on them if you are such dedicated War Thunder player.

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Yes they do their job both irl and in game (in rb atleast since the enemy username doesnt pop up); except irl you cant remove them by simply shooting them with a machine gun.

If you can’t tell the difference between a tank with bushes and a shrub, you shouldn’t be playing this game.

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What skill-less pay to win players? This is a topic about bushes

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Yes, because bushes are so much different from bushes, crazy.

Yes, because seeing a fir bush right next to a basic bitch green shrub makes it so hard to tell which is fake.

I’d assume it’s the one with a barrel poking out of it?

Because everyone uses those specific bushes and it somehow never matches, and spotting a barrel is not the same as a whole tank.

Regardless it’s not the subject to begin with, bushes cover weakspots no matter how easily you can detect a bushes up vehicle or not, a Jumbo with bushes is way more difficult to kill than one without, and this applies to any vehicle where you need to hit a weakspot.

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Honestly, bushes are the reason why I don’t play low tier and I think they are far more OP than CAS is.

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