183 replies in only day!!! thanks all for the support. Looks like most of the players agree with something should be done about this situation. Is funny how some trolls try to defend the team kill for nukes.
I hope we do some noise and Gaijin finally change this.
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This doesn’t invalidate rules being placed. Otherwise, you are arguing that FF for ground vehicles should be reactivated, since it was allowed 10 years ago. Those rules did not stop the amount of TK. I have, again, said this earlier.
Are you just purposely not reading what I type? Quit dragging in a different topic.
To avoid further confusion, what do YOU want done to these players, while also considering moderation, arbitration, and instances where teamkills are accidental?
I want them to face the punishment they deserve as it’s clear on review as to whether something is accidental or not…
It’s rather simple really.
So you’re arguing for every instance of teamkilling to be arbitrated, is that correct?
What’s arbitration got to do with it when it’s a clear cut case of a player doing the rounds, on the regular?
This is where I think you’re playing into allowing this to continue because you’re genuinely making excuses and trying to muddy the clarity of the situation.
If someone is doing this, on the regular, then they shouldn’t be playing the game.
Like the players who mess up the RB Air matches for the lols, match after match… They can’t possibly say it was an accident, because they’ve done it 3 games in a row…
How about consequences for repeated and persistent teamkilling? It can’t be that difficult. Someone shoots down an ally. Over. Such “accidents” should not become more frequent. 1x ok … a second time within another round … oh well
By the third teamkill at the latest, one or the other should slowly realise that something is wrong with their playing style.
Even if it happens to me three times and I get a first warning in the form of a 2-hour ban. Should that be enough for me to work on myself!
And with repeated offences, the time span of a ban increases. All the way up to a perma-ban.
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Exactly this… Avoiding punishing the bad players makes less authority on the rules.
See, this is where you are misunderstanding the points being made here. Again, from an earlier post you responded to,
To be explicitly clear, you, as a player, can randomly TK one person or TK multiple over a large period of time and not be punished with any sort of ban. Even though intentional TK is not allowed according to ruleset, you absolutely can get away without severe punishment for doing so occasionally. The report system for TK is automated. The only way to adequately enforce these rules is to have an arbiter review every single complaint of teamkilling to find instances where it was intentional. I shouldn’t need to tell you this is entirely impractical.
So what about increasing base penalties? If too severe, accidental TKs would be catastrophic for those who are otherwise upstanding players. Scaling penalties would be a start, but for nuke carriers this is inadequate, so I ignore this for this topic.
But you want the FF implemented to avoid punishing those who do this, just to fix the game, which isn’t the angle that should be taken.
It’s clear as day on review as to whether a TK was accidental or not, and the fact we have this unused forgive system is more of a point.
Whilst this is true, we’ve got someone posting up showing how inadequate it is, and the system isn’t working as it should be and that needs changing.
The players are needing to be facing more problems because preventing them from doing what they are doing, and making it so they don’t see consequences, makes the rules all the more paper thin, and that, is where the players being acted upon should be a thing.
In fact, it NEEDS to be a thing to get rid of these terrible players showing bad sportsmanship and griefing players because they’re that caught up on themselves.
If implemented, removing FF for nuke planes will not remove every instance of it, it just makes it harder for an otherwise unpunished and intentional kill. And again,
This requires a third party, the “arbiter”. And having these arbiters review the flood of teamkilling complaints is not very practical. It also does not bring back the less common instance of spawning a nuke.
I said they’d find another way to do it WAY back in the post…
And we have moderators and game masters for a reason…
It’s not that hard to be honest.
What’s that got to do with it? The infrequency of the spawning of the nuke, would be outweighed by the consistency of the player actually TKing…
The positions people hold, whilst voluntary, still have a responsibility. If they can’t handle the requirements then maybe they should step aside and make way for others to do it properly.
I do think that an automated solution can also be sharper. Because in the end. Even if it really happens to me unintentionally, I have to answer for it.
In the end, it’s a simple calculation. All you need is the time period and the number of teamkills. In the end, it doesn’t matter if it was unintentional over a longer period of time.
A “cool-down” timer, which can be variable, helps here.
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That forgive system really needs to be improved, and even lodge the forgive AFTER the match so you can accept the situation rather than just in the match, seemingly obscured by the UI and the hectic pace of the match.
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Which was unnecessary, since I already mentioned people always finding loopholes.
How many reports do you assume these people have to look through? I can promise it is significantly more than you assume.
The infrequency of a nuke should be a great moment that shouldn’t be ruined by teammates that hold a one sided grudge. Why should the nuke carrier have to worry about both enemies and teammtes?
I’m not claiming these people are unable to do their job, but I am not going to advocate for methods that increases their workload and affecting response times.
This is how it works currently, though. You get an automated warning from the game, to which you can reduce activities for a period of time before doing it again. This is why, due to the inadequacy of the system, it does not protect players well enough from intentional TK.
That system needs improving, we don’t need to stop them TKing by removing the FF from the game.
It’s better to deal with the trash player compared to actually changing the game to suit that.
I’ve been a part of admin teams before in other games, and I’ve commonly spectated thousands of hours of gameplay and implemented systems to cope with dumb players doing stupid crap… It’s truely not that hard.
Ok, aren’t we just talking about the fact that it’s not effective enough and should take action much earlier?
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I hate to keep bringing this up, but there is already precedence for removing TK in a particular area. I do not see how removing TK in one other specific area is harmful to the game whatsoever.
As above, this already happened many years ago, despite such a system already existing. So they did, in fact, change the game as it affected user experience. It did not stop every instance of griefing/tk, but it did significantly reduce the likelyhood.
I can’t weigh the significance of this statement, as I do not know your background.
As a whole, the system is inadequate to address intentional TK. This is something we all do agree on from what I can see. However, in the particular case of FF vs nuke bombers, even an improved report system would be inadequate due to the amount of effort required to spawn them vs the methods needed to TK. Which is why removing FF for the nuke planes helps alleviate the fear of being shot by your own team either maliciously (thr most common method) vs accidentally (negligent yet extremely rare). The intial proposal helps address this adequately, in my opinion.
Because obviously removing it elsewhere hasn’t actually fixed the actual problem…
…
It’s just shifting it on until they figure a new way to do it…
This is where the artillery point was initially raised… TK got brought in, I ended up being tagteamed by 2 players who artilleried me while pushing me into a corner…
The fact that a ‘’‘solution’‘’ to this is removing the FF from artillery, led to the exploitation of artillerying the cap, and rushing it knowing you were impervious.