Problematic BR: 11.7 and 13.0

As per title, the game is quite healthy at the moment but there are two BR that really need some rework, because there are some planes that do not belong and end up really damaging the game.

Problems of 11.7
First of all, let’s define what kind of planes you can find at this br. From 11.0 to 11.7 most trees have in their lineups the best 2nd or 3rd gen fighters, usually carrying all-aspect ir missiles and some fox1 missiles. Planes at this br usually do NOT have a reliable pd radar paired with fox1 missiles, meaning that up to 11.7 dropping chaff is usually enough to avoid most radar missiles, with some exception. Most radars available at this tier are either not good enough to achieve long distance locks or the missiles themselves do not have enough range to be dangerous at distance, making so that fox1 are still used in visual range combat. There is a lot that could be said, but in general we can summarize it this way:
-Great IR missiles (but no IRCCM)
-No reliable* PD radar paired with long range fox1
-Most fights take place in BFM at close range

After saying this, two planes come to mind that really stick out for their capabilities and should not sit at this br, carrying a set of avinics and weapons too good compared to the competition. One is the Mirage F1, the other is the A-10c and the third is the Viggen JA37D
The problem witht the mirage F1 has a name: it’s magic2. No other fighter at this br has IRCCM all aspect fox 2 missiles, and that gives it a really unfair advantage, that is usually visible in game by taking note of the amount of kills that these planes can score. It wasnt like that at all in the past, when IRCCM wasnt a thing on magic2. If not for these missiles, the Mirage F1 would be a perfect 11.7 plane, but given the potency of those missiles, I believe it should be moved up in br. 12.0 or 12.3 would be more fit br for the plane.

The second plane is the A-10C: simply put, the HMS with IFF paired with Aim9m and MAW is too much at this br. It’s an attacker that is the best fighter of the game at its br, and it really feels out of place. Nothing can really worry this plane given that at this br there are no ways to put pressure on it from afar, and in close range it’s really dangerous because the A-10 can and will outturn every other fighter and because of its HMD and invisible flare resistant missiles it can kill unsuspecting enemies even before being spotted. It also carries a complete set of ground weapons including GPS weapons, meaning that it can wipe clear a full AI ground battle by itself in a single sweep. For these reasons, I believe this plane should only face late 3rd gen fighters and early 4th gen, so that its opponent have access to a pd radar and can be aware of its presence before getting close. In my opinion, this plane should be move to 12.7 where it can still be very effective in its air to ground role but it loses the ability to dominate in air to air fights.

Third plane: JA37D Viggen. Very good flight model, 4 aim9l and 2 Skyfalsh paired with HUD and TWS radar. It has probably the best situational awareness at this tier matched only by the A-10c. This plane should also be moved up to 12.0 or 12.3

Problems of 13.0
Since the inclusion in the game of fox3 missiles, early 4th gen planes and late 3rd gen planes that only carry fox1 missiles have lost a br where they can be used effectively. Some planes like, for example, the F16ADF, Mig29, Su27, or F15A do not have a BR where they can face each other without having to deal with top tier fox 3 missiles.
In my opinion, ANY plane carrying fox 3 missiles should be moved above 13.0 no matter what its flight model is and every plane that does NOT carry fox3 missiles should be moved at 13.0 or below according to flight performances, so to ensure that we can get different styles of gameplay:
Only fox2 and basic fox 1 up until 11.7; Advanced fox2 and long range fox1 up to 13.0 and fox3+advanced fox2 from 13.0 and above

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Sure, so long as those low performance Fox-3 Slingers get MASSIVE buffs to compensate for the fact they are overall worse than the late Fox-1 slingers that you mentioned. Like giving the Sea Harrier FA2 and Tornado F3 Late ASRAAMs.

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You forget about 12.3, some 12.3 fighters have difficulty fighting 12.7 or even 13.0, but there is no 12.3 battle now.
There are also issues with the 11.3 MIG23ML/MLA/MLD, which has the omnidirectional IR AAM and the reliable SARH AAM. These weapons will not be available in other countries until 11.7.

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You re right about the 12.3…planes like the phantom s and j are actually worse than those 11.7. They are one trick ponies, they either get you with their aim7 or they re done.
I dont agree about mig23 because all aspect missiles are common from 11.0 and above, and since the radar nerf mig23 cannot toggle mti on at will, thus rendering those missiles way less dangerous than what they used to be. If you fly higher than a mig23, its radar will stay in src mode so you can just chaff it. Still a very good plane obviously, but not to the point of being problematic.

11.0 aircraft are only MIG21BIS, SU17/22, J7D/E, Kfir Canard. The MIG21BIS and SU17/22 have All Aspect IR AAM, while the J7D/E and Kfir Canard have only Rear Aspect IR AAM.

The 11.3 F5E only has 2 bad AIM9J/P, which is pretty much the worst weapon. The Tornado IDS have two AIM9Ls, but you can’t beat the MIG23 in a battle of advantage, and the MIG23 can even fly faster than you. The Phantom FG1/FGR2’s radar and weapons are well balanced, with four Aim9Gs and four Skyflash, its only problem is that each weapon is worse than the MIG23’s, and it faces the same problems as the Tornado when entering from an advantage position. The Sea Harrier FRS1 and AV-8S have four AIM9Ls, but you can’t go supersonic. Jaguar IS equipped with two Magic 2s, but otherwise has no merit. The AMXA1A has two MAA1s, but it can’t go supersonic. The JA37C’s radar is better than the Phantom FG1’s with only slightly fewer missiles, but I don’t think it has a chance of beating anyone in a dog fight, and its poor speed loss makes me reluctant to use it again. The ASJ37 has 4 AIM9Ls and 2 AIM9Ps, but if you want to carry countermeasures you have to reduce the number of AIM9Ls by 1-2. The F111C has four AIM9Ls, and I think it’s the second aircraft in this class after the MIG23. If you don’t turn, almost no one can beat you. Kfir C2 I’m not familiar with this plane.

Kfir is very good, i have the premium one and it flies incredibly well. In the 11.0 and 11.3 range I believe that mig23, kfir, f5 and ja37c are the best planes. They re all more or less on the same level, each with advantages and disadvantages.

Oh and i was forgetting… The F14B and the IRIAF must be movbed up in br. They are too good to stay below 13.0. Those are really broken at their br, with too much of an advandage compared to their enemies

The F-14B is about the worst 13.0 after the Belgian F-16A and the FA2 and you want to move it up?

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Lmao. How?? Especially the F-14B. You must want buffs for them considering they’re not going anywhere without at least 2 buffs apiece.

It’s not 13.0 right now, but it should be, at the very least. F14B and F14 IRIAF right now can bully everyone when 12.7 is top tier, because they can sling fox3 to planes that only carry 2 fox1. The IRIAF in particular, after the fakour it still has 2 r27 and 2 ir missiles. Imho it’s much stronger than even the 13.0 F-16 ADF, and you usually see it reflected in game. F14 can easily get lots of kills and it ruins the game because it’s the only plane with fox3.

F14B and IRIAF should go to 13.3 in my opinion. They are equivalent to the premium viggen, which also should go up following the reasoning of my first post.
Have fox 3? Then your br should be at least 13.3. Imho: bad plane with fox3=13.3 Decent plane with fox3=13.7 Great plane with fox 3=14.0. So you can have lobbies up to 13.0 where nobody has fox3, allowing for different styles of gameplay.

This logic is hilarious. How in the world do you expect them to compete at 13.3 without any buffs? The Phoenix is the worst ARH in the entire game by a long shot, and the Fakour is only good because it’s big and fast. Again, unless you’re advocating for the F-14s to get some really good buffs, you’re expectations are baseless.

Lately, I’ve been playing mostly 13.0 since I’m stock grinding the su-27 and the F-15J + finishing the rafale with the F-16A or the 12.3 mirage2k.

Since I get uptiered about 85% of the time I now abandon the match before spawning if I see any 13.7-14.0 jet.

Whenever I play those uptiers they often end up with the few 13.7-14.0 players racking all the kills when everyone else acts as RP pinatas. Imagine joining a game where 20 people just participate for 8 of them to have a good time. Sorry but nahh…

I have to deal with crew locks often but I also have like 8 crews of 13.0 ready to go and a bunch more of 12.7 and if all else fails I just take my typhoon and join the chaos

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I see your point of view. F14 is hard to balance. Its not good enough to face better planes, but if put in a lobby where it is the only fox3 carrier it will dominate the game. So I see where you’re coming from. Personally, I would like to have access to fox1 only lobbies, so i’d rather see it struggling at higher br than dominating at a lower br. Sometimes there isnt a perfect choice and this is one of those times, no matter where you put it, it’s unbalanced.

There are a lots of planes around these BRs that are impossible to properly balance due to BR compression.

The fakour spammers are completely broken and ruin lots of matches but they aren’t really 13.0 material. Still I would rather they be 13.0 for now if gaijin doesn’t care about decompressing anything else.

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How about this. You join the group of people advocating for F-14 buffs. The F-14 is a very incomplete aircraft at the moment. If it got it’s actual stats, the F-14A could easily be 13.0-13.3, and the IRIAF and F-14B could easily be 13.7. That way, the F-14s almost never see non-fox3 jets, and the tomcat pilots get to have their jet be in a great and accurate spot.

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I would 100% agree with it.

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I do agree it’s a weird position. It’s one of the earliest versions of the F-14A with one of the best “versions” of the Phoenix missile. I think giving them R-73s or 6x Fakours and sending it up to 13.0 would be better than it stay where it’s at for now.

Yeah. Right now playing red team at 12.7 is very hard because of it. Players with the f14 can easily dominate lobbies, especially if france is also on blue side.

With that loadout, it would be in the current 13.3 territory. It could be 13.0 as is if it had a better RWR and more countermeasures. But the lack of those is what most hurts the plane.

It has very strong offensive capabilities, the fastest fox3 missiles that can even work at medium ranges on contrary to the phoenix that doesn’t get fast enough at closer ranges. Then it has the 2nd best active radar missiles after the R-27ER

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I love the Persian tomcat but it will be kinda shit if it got r73s as the rwr and 60 small countermeasures really let you down, however you could totally give it 6 fakours and the fater (Iranian aim9L) and make it 13.0.

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if F-14A IRIAF is armed with 6x Fakour, it can’t be lower than 13.3.

R-73 might be less of a problem compared to 2x extra Fakour, Still it might be a problem as long as F-14B only has AIM-9L which isn’t with IRCCM.