Please stop down tiering 11.0 Japanese auto loaders to 10.3 matches

look ima a leo2a4 lover and i gota say that wont work because the Leopard 2 is more maneuverable than the Turms

now sure the Turms is harder to kill (more armor and bullshit ERA) while the 2a4 can be one shoted from everywhere except higher front hull armor and has a better round and way better thermals and a better reload and better matchmaker and team and a better lineup but cmon the leo2a4 clearly does not need a better shell at all!!!

eh idk i get 4+ kill games like every 1-2 matches the maneuverability is something i love about it and thats just personal preference im sure the avg war thunder player wont use its maneuverability well so it wont matter aka the turms is just better

also why tf is there only 2 leo 2a4s??? the TT one and the premium… like bruh the russians have like 7 MBTs that can be used comfortably at 10.0

It has no armor, 3 crewmembers and a cramped crew compartment. If you sneeze at it in its general direction, you can kill it, even with base sabot on 2A4

let him. he the germany main so have heavy skill issue.

I tried to read through this whole thread as someone who plays mostly Japan but only made it about 300 responses in before I had to look at this guys stats. His point of view makes sense when considering he skipped to 10.3 and has little to no experience with any other nation. He’s a perfect example of the germany suffers meme.


I finally managed to get hands on Leopard 2A4 thanks to Christian II so now I know how both tanks are. In the end I was right and you just have serious skill issue. Leopard 2A4 is such a beast at its BR. I even managed to get close to nuke just with Leo in those few battles.


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i like it, helps me notice if i have nuke available lol some games I forgot about nuke and had enough for it and spawned on another tank XD

most tanks can reload way faster irl, the type10/90s have done 1.5 second reloads (there’s a video of one doing sub second firing) and iirc the Leclerc can also do rapid fire

After 77 battles with Christian II I have to say that crying about Leopard 2a4 is just pathetic.

I have 231 ground kills and 11 air kills with this tank. This makes k/d ratio of 5.5. It is simply one of the highest k/d tanks I have next to Tiger II Sla with 5.8 and Type 69 G with 4.9 and Chi-Nu II with 5.0(only take into account tanks with at least 50 battles).

Meanwhile with Type 90 I have only 3.6 thanks to its much more difficult MM as you often face 11.7 tanks and also much more deadly CAS.

I have no problem dealing with any enemy. Only tank, that I consider harder to deal with, is new Obj 292 as if you do not see lower plate it can be little bit challenge to kill it frontally.

So my experience with Leo 2a4 just confirmed fact, that you just have serious skill issue.

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The Turms only has 3BM42 and thermals, it’s an uptiered T-72A. You can pen 90% of the entire UFP with DM23 and M774 @ 2000 meters, and Kontakt-1 barely provides any KE protection. Also its slow af. It’s the textbook definition of a glass cannon.

I don’t see how they’re even 11.0 worthy, the reload speed is the only gimmick they have and Abrams is only 1s slower than that.

Abrams reload speed is dependent on crew skills. Not everyone has aced crew. Also when you kill or hurt loader in Abrams, reload speed will be slower. You do not have to deal with this in autoloaders. Also the difference between 4 seconds reload and 5 seconds reload may look small on paper but it is huge in fight when needed.

Sure, and the reload speed is nice and can definitely be an advantage at times, but that already requires less than ideal circumstances to require that second shot in order to benefit from it, aside from that they’re not great vehicles.

Depends how you play it. Combination of fast reload speed, great mobility and hydro-pneumatic suspensions made it really great flanker or sniper tank. I also find Type 90 quite powerful when fighting multiple enemies at once. Shooting down one and then avoiding other for 4 seconds is just easier than with any +5s reload tanks. It happened multiple times where I killed one tank and before other could push corner I reloaded just in time to kill other player as well.

Combination of fast reload speed, great mobility and hydro-pneumatic suspensions made it really great flanker or sniper tank.

Reload speed yes, mobility is on par with most things and the suspension is needed to compensate for the lack of depression.

The low gen thermals, the lack of crew members, the lack of armor, the permanent zoom, the lack of elevation and depression don’t make it an 11.0 vehicle to me.

Skill issues and ofc GERMAN SUFFERS😭

Compression issue.

Lets compare it to other easily accessible 11.0 MBTs. There are not that much 11.0 tanks in game after all. We have M1A1 and IPM1, Merkava Mk.3b and Mk.3c and Swedish T 80 U. All of those tanks have just Gen 1 thermals. On gun depression only Abramses has -10, Merkavas has -7 like Type 90, T 80 U has classic soviet -5. In case of mobility, Type 90 has best p/w ratio meaning it reaches its maximum speed faster and it means you get to the positions faster than other tanks. It also means you have higher chances of running away if necessary. I do not know about optics as I never have problem with those. Elevation can be problem only in specific situations but nothing that cannot be worked on with use of terrain. The only think that Type 90 has true disadvantage, compare to other 11.0, is survivability as armor is not good with combination of 3 crew members makes it easier to kill. In case of firepower reload is uncontested as you get fastest reload speed without any additional conditions. The penetration is on the lower side but not worst as T 80 U has lower pen.

In conclusion advantages of Type 90 is ok at 11.0. It has its strengths and weaknesses. Compare to other MBTs it has more unique playstyle as you should play the way you can use that fast autoloader. Skilled player will probably dominate lobby with it as firepower can be abused more than better survivability at this BR.

Compare it to a Leopard 2A4, pretty much the same mobility, thought it has similar APFSDS but it doesn’t, same thermals, laser rangefinder, reload 4s auto vs 6s, -7/10 vs -9/20… where the elevation is more limiting, suspension on the Type 90 but that takes time and using front depression means you cannot shoot over the back, 30 degree vs 40 degree turret rotation, both lack protection, 3 vs 4 crew.
And then optics are 9-10x vs 4-12x, which sucks.

The only real advantage for the Type 90 is the autoloader and the APFSDS, but at 11.0 you can also find MBTs with over a 100mm pen advantage over the Type 90, I don’t think that necessarily justifies a 0.7 difference, especially at 11.0 you’re just always playing against 11.7.

This is the only zoom you get, which is just tunnel vision so you have to rely on third person a lot more and thermal value is significantly reduced as your FOV is so narrow.

Leopard 2a4 does not lack protection at 10.3. I do not know where you got that. Frontal armor is not at levels of obj 292 but it is not bad at all. Also acceleration of Type 90 is still better than Leopard 2a4. Firepower difference is more significant then you think. Like I said having great firepower and mobility is always more impactful than having good armor and survivability in good hands. I looked at your K/D and it looks like you are simply not playing this tank correctly. Especially when you said that 4s and 5s in reload is not much a difference. Also using gunner optics to look around sounds like bad idea. That what commander optics or binos are for so you can look around and not expose your turret. That is why bad FOV is not problem for me as I use gunner optics after I locate enemy with binos or commander optics.

I’m comparing the Type 90 to the 2A4, neither has a significant protection advantage.
Acceleration difference is minimal… like 2hp/t difference.
1s is not that much different, no.
Firepower and mobility is something the Type 90 has neither in noteworthy levels, it’s mobility is good, but on par with most things around, and not an advantage over them, and firepower is amongst the lowest.

My k/d with the Type 90 is 121/71… I don’t know what kind of stupid numbers you want to see that you feel the need to criticize that and tell me that I don’t know what I’m doing because 1.7 is not enough for you, it is for me.