Flak 341 is far more real cause atleast is has a hull built for it compared to what they replaced it with which blatantly doesnt exist ostwind 2 never built and same with the 6.0 aa only a ground test mount of 4 30mm mk103s where built no hull
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Well there were 1-2 Prototypes build, one of which even ended up in czech inventory.
In the internet publication work of Mr. Vladimír Francev on captured armored vehicles in the Czechoslovak army (3rd part)) it is stated that in the report of the VTV (Tank Army Command) from 10/1947, among the German equipment collected from all over Czechoslovakia there is also an anti-aircraft tank with a twin 3.7 cm cannon on the Pz.Kpfw. IV platform. Given that at the end of the war, the production of the German plant Deutsche Eisenwerke AG-Werk Stahindustrie was moved from Duisburg to a branch plant in Teplice, it is possible that the hypothetical prototype Ostwind II (?) also reached Czech territory. Vladimír Francev: Kořistní obrněná vozidla ve výzbroji čs. armády (3. část) – Československá armáda
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Thats just a normal Wirbelwind with muzzle covers.
Where was it weakened? After restoring this vehicle, it will gain:
- Equipped with the flak341 cannon, achieving 87mm penetration, APHE with 1000m/s velocity, and HE with 1000m/s velocity (already implemented in the latest DEV server).
- Upgraded to the Panther D chassis, with engine power increased from 600HP to 650HP.
- Enhanced turret armor protection.
The only trade-off is a reduction of 10mm in side hull armor.
Why do you have such a selfish thought? Are you implying that new players don’t deserve to have this vehicle, and then get blamed by veteran players when facing off against the US 7.0 lineup?
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Flakpanzer 341 is not a fictional tank in the standards of War Thunder; it has met the minimum requirements for suggestions and has been approved by community administrators.
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The planners are well aware that the German tech tree lacks effective SPAA beyond 6.0, yet they repeatedly use the same rhetoric to dismiss players’ concerns. This is truly a lamentable situation.
i will delete my posts i don’t to be spread any negativity best of luck!
If it wasn’t already apparent, the whole Coelian debacle it has made it clear that Gaijin’s method of removal has not been an effective means to an end. An ‘end’ which a large portion of players, likely the majority, did not want anyway. And here we are left with a divide between the haves and have-nots as a result.
Thanks to NewFlameCorp on Reddit for the screenshot.
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It needs to come back.
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which one of you activated the sleeper agents?
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Agreed, it and the other two. But let’s hope Gaijin fixes the tank reversing autopen bug first, or we can say goodbye to ever enjoying the Coelian’s BR range again.
I’m looking foward to seeing what comes of WT’s birthday this year. All three vehicles have been changed in the past year for the first time since their removal and WT’s birthday seems a logical time to make them available again. Not anything huge to go off, but let’s see what happens.
Plus, the Tiger II (ex-H) is set to get a model update next patch, maybe that will extend to the Tiger II 105. Again, not much to go off, but I thought I’d mention it.
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I dearly wish your gut instinct to be correct, but I just don’t see it. Even with the new model, or the fact that they decided to act upon the bug reports.
My personal prediction is that in say, five years’ time, after several other avenues of major expansion have begun to mature (carriers, missile frigates, submarines, infantry, multi vehicle systems) we will see the release of a “Legacy Pack” similar to the three-tank packs they’ve been doing recently, and it’ll contain premium versions of the three removed vehicles, with the originals remaining closed to whoever was playing before update 1.91.
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Don’t get me wrong, I’m not particularly optimistic nor pessimistic about them returning this November because Gaijin is hardly a predictable company. I just think it’s the most expected method of bringing them back if they’re brought back at all.
But like I said, Gaijin isn’t really known for being predictable. Maybe they’ll surprise us with another way of reintroducing them somewhere down the line. Maybe.
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I think instead of the Tiger II 10.5cm, what we should get is a Tiger II with various planned upgrades that were tested, but however never implemented due to the abrupt end of Tiger II production in March 1945 due to the rapidly deteriorating war situation for Nazi Germany. Various parts of these upgrades are already present on the in game Tiger II model and these include: the rangefinder, redesigned engine deck and more powerful Maybach HL 234 engine.
I’m going to work on a more detailed suggestion at some point, I’ve been doing research on it, and I’ll give a brief description of various components that were tested for various upgrades for the Tiger II and:
Increased hull ammo stowage
Redesigned hull ammo racks in the panniers, which increased the ammo stowage to 8 in the front, 9 in the middle and 13 rounds in the rear, up from 6 in the front, 7 in the middle and 11 in the rear. This increased the total ammunition stowage in the by 12 rounds.
Not only this, in February 1945, Henschel completed drawing HSK 4372, which showed a new ammunition rack of 5 rounds stowed horizontally behind the turret platform and in front of the engine bay firewall.
Co-axial MG 42 and ball mount StG 44
Along with the Panther Ausf. F, the Tiger II was supposed to switch over from a MG 34 co-axial machine gun in the turret, to the MG 42. In conjunction with this, the ball mount MG 34 was to be replaced with a StG 44. This change was ready to be implemented and required little modification, however is unlikely to have happened due to the abrupt end of Tiger II production in March 1945.
Redesigned engine deck
Drawing 021 B 495 01 U1, originally dated 20th April 1943, modified on 14th November 1944 to include the redesigned engine deck with larger 3 piece engine access hatch
The redesigned engine deck is already present on the in-game Tiger II 10.5cm L/68 model and features a larger engine access hatch that is segmented into 3 parts for easier opening, and a crew compartment heater that redirected warm air created by the radiators into the crew compartment.
Em. 1.6 m R (Pz.) rangefinder,
Another one of the features currently present on the Tiger II 10.5cm model, a few of the rangefinders were built, with DHHV at least starting production on armour shells for the modified turret.
With a magnification of 15x and a FoV of 4°, it wasn’t as simple installing the rangefinder as expected, it limited the gun depression to -6° in the Tiger II’s turret, which was seen as unacceptable. It got in the way of the pneumatic cylinder, responsible for blowing fumes out of the gun.
The height of the turret had to be increased by a total of 45mm, which increased the weight of the turret by 110kg. Not only this, the commander’s cupola had to be moved forward by 20mm, leading to an unacceptable space situation for the commander and gunner.
It was decided that the -6° gun depression restriction for turrets with the rangefinder would have to be temporarily accepted with installation of a stop mechanism into the gun elevation drive that could be removed by the crew. Potential plans for a longer but smaller radius pneumatic cylinder were considered to achieve the original gun depression of -8°. Plans to actually install rangefinders into turrets were slated for July 1945.
Maybach HL 234 Petrol Engine
Drawing created from original Maybach drawing B44200-0-1
A water cooeled 23.5 litre, 4 cylinders, V12, fuel injected engine based on the Maybach HL 230. Between 4–6 prototypes built, with 1-2 representing the final production engine. Originally ran at 900HP @ 3000 RPM, however was unstable at these speeds and was reduced to 850 @ 3000 RPM for production.
Power curve for the Maybach HL 234, 900 Gross horsspower at 3000 RPM and 820~ Net horsepower installed in the Panther at 3000 RPM
The increased power of the HL 234 over the HL 230 was achieved with fuel injection, which removed the inherent restrictions of carburetion. Not only this, with the switch to fuel injection allowed for a higher compression ratio of 7:1 for the Maybach HL 234 compared to 6.4:1 of the HL 230 using standard 72 octane fuel.
Other changes made to improve power over the HL 230 were streamlining of the inlet and exhaust ports and manifolds for improved volumetric efficiency and a permissible increase in valve overlaps without detrimental effects.
Plans for installing the Maybach HL 234 into the Tiger II and then the Panther were slated for August 1945, however with the war’s end in Europe in May 1945, this would never happen. However, this wouldn’t be the end for the Maybach HL 234. France was able to get their hands on all prototypes of the Maybach HL 234 and in collaboration with Maybach, would further develop the engine and test the Maybach HL 234 and install it on Lorraine’s char de 40t running it at 850HP @ 3000RPM as per original plans for the production engine.
Technical details for the Char de 40t, including mentions of either the Maybach HL 230 and Maybach HL 234 as being engine options.
Although not named, the mention of a 23.5 litre, fuel-injected 850 horsepower Maybach engine is certainly the HL 234
Gunner's sight stabilization
S.Z.F. 1 stabilised gun sight
The stabilized gun sights designed for the Tiger II and Panther performed 2 functions:
- Stabilization of the sight to keep the cross-hairs of the sight on target while driving over uneven terrain
- Fire the gun by electric contact when the gun barrel traverse up and down on the move at the moment the gun is at the correct angular height for the target.
The S.Z.F 1 stabilized sight was tested along with gyroscopic gun stabilization on the Panther with a testing firing of 10 rounds from a range of 1000m.
On March 10, 1945, Krupp attempted to install the S.Z.F 3 stabilized sight into a Tiger II with a rangefinder. They found that the sight along with the gyroscopic device was able to fit into the same location and same hole as the previous sight, but that the turret front plate needed to be changed in size and shape to fit the external aperture.
These are the most important changes and upgrades I want to mention in my suggestion when I get around to making it, there is also a lot of stuff not mentioned, pending either more research or being optional changes. Some of these optional changes are the various in development like diesel engines like the Sla. 16, as later in the war, the fuel situation switched over in favour of diesel so replacing petrol engines with diesel engines was a serious idea, including for the Tiger II.
An example of something I need to do more research on is for the PP33 planetary gearbox potentially replacing the Olvar OG 40 12 16 B gearbox. While the Olvar gearbox was mechanically fine, it was a lot more expensive to produce compared to for example the AK 7/20 gearbox on the Panther. In fact, the AK 7/20 was selected as a potential replacement for the OG 40 12 16 B, however this seemed unlikely by the time of 1945. The PP33 was worked on in 1944 and passed bench testing and was selected as a potential gearbox replacement, however this is all I have gathered so far.
Sources:
- VK 45.02 To Tiger II: Design, Production & modifications, ThomasL. Jentz, Hilary L. Doyle.
- CIOS report XXXIII-8 Maybach moterembau G.m.b.H
- CIOS report XXXII-62 Maybach HL 234 Tank Engine
- CIOS report XXXII-34 Stabilised Optics for German Tank Guns
- RH/2590K
- Châtellerault AA 503 1H1 3
- Châtellerault AA 503 1H1 27
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Hats off to you for the effort you’re putting into researching this, looking forward to seeing the suggestion when it goes up.
I still think the Tiger II 105 should come back, at least as long as it’s accessible to those who already have it. While I very much like what the tank is now, I wouldn’t be terribly opposed to them stripping it down to what is represented in the sketch we have. But I think we can conjecture that it could plausibly have received the 1945 upgrades you detailed had it gone past the drawing board.*
And if the Panther II remains unchanged, the two of them with the Coelian make for a very complementary lineup at 7.0. It’s simpler to keep them together, and I doubt most people would mind the tanks staying in their current form.
*This is coming from someone with only surface-level knowledge of the tank, so let me know if I’m talking through my hat.
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I think making the argument that these changes would being included onto the Tiger II 10.5cm had it been accepted is a valid argument, however, there are issues with the Tiger II 10.5cm. Gaijin stuck a 2nd loader into the turret without a second thought. It was noted that it would have been extremely difficult to fit another loader into an unmodified Tiger II turret, and that the turret would probably need to be redesigned. You could reduce it down to 1 loader to make it more feasible, then you run into the issue of that 1 loader was considered insufficient for the Tiger II 10.5cm.
Not only this, the 10.5cm would need new aiming devices, which don’t seem to have ever been designed before it was cancelled, which is also why the turret needed to be redesigned. Some parts of the Tiger II 10.5cm have to be theoretical for it to exist in a functional form.
I think making a Tiger II with the various planned 1945 upgrades a separate vehicle, you remove the trap of historical issues with the Tiger II 10.5cm, as at least all the upgrades I mentioned were feasible and or tested.
However, if Gaijin did add the Tiger II 10.5cm back, they should make a few edits to it to be as feasible as possible without having to make things up. Remove the 2nd loader; Even if only 1 loader was considered inadequate, it would be more realistic than 2 loaders in an unmodified Tiger II turret. Fix the gun model being completely incorrect, and fix the ammunition stowage layout for the turret.
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I agree if you make this as tank suggestion this would be better than the fake 105 tiger
it’s more historical i support also tiger II will have faster engine and range find and faster reload !
Frankly after the “ideal TOG II” and the Flapjack with “proposed” bomb load, keeping the 3 removed German vehicles away (or the R2Y2s) is simply untenable.
Kudos on everything else, fantastic work.
How would the stabilised gun sight be implemented in game though?
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I considered the second loader incorrect for the longest time, since only one loader can access the breech.
However the ammo layout of the 105 Tiger II in WT makes no sense.
Currently all shells are stored in turret while propellant charges are stored in the hull, but retrieving these charges is very difficult, hence the turret bustle rack on the Tiger II.
Just like on the regular Tiger II, the charges should be stored in the turret in place of the 88mm rounds.
105mm shells should be stored around the turret ring, with 4-6 being easily accessible by the primary loader. The rest should be stored in the hull.
The second loader retrieves the shells from the hull and places them in the turret, so that the primary loader doesn’t run out of shells to load.
That way the 105 Tiger II can fire 22 shots without much interruption, like the 88mm version.
I changed the layout to be like this:
Which only reduces the total amount of shells by 2.
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Out of curiosity, do you know if the Em. 1.6m (or equivalent) was ever tested on a Jagdtiger?