So, actually, a quick question on that. Being that the vehicle we have in-game was, in effect, just a test mule chassis with the gun temporarily mounted on it for trials that never received a formal designation would it be best just to find sources proving that and leave the name up to Gaijin, or should I make a suggestion for a modern name following German conventions?
Tiger 105 is as realistic as the having more than one Japanese Tiger 1 in a match or the British Sherman II firing T45 APCR that was never issued for combat.
Tons of vehicles have made up stats because there’s no information on it.
A lot of things which didn’t work in real life, do in WT.
So there’s pretty much no point in not having vehicle modifications or proposals that never existed in that form because WT is full of made up things already.
What’s the difference of making up the performance of a vehicle vs. making up the performance of a vehicle that was never produced?
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But, guys… is there even the slightest chance the vehicles come back? Should we still have hope?
Sturmtiger autoloader ftw.
No one can answer this question for you.
Gaijin is a company. Companies logically manage PR according to their interests. When they say that there are no plans to return these vehicles, it could mean a number of things. It could mean they will never return. It could mean they might some day return but it’s not on the horizon and they’re keeping their powder dry. It could mean they already have something in store for them but aren’t sharing it until the appropriate time. Etc etc.
So you’ll just have to live with the uncertainty, like we all do when it comes to this thing.
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There is actually a blueprint made by Krupp which redesigned the Schamlturm slightly to accommodate the Kwk43. It is on Tank Encyclopedia under the project name of Panther 88.
Personally, I think if the Tiger II ever came back, Gaijin should separate it into 2 vehicles. Right now, the Tiger II 10.5cm is a mix of the Tiger II 10.5cm project from late 1944 that didn’t go anywhere and a bunch of various upgrades that were supposed to be incorporated into the Tiger II during production in 1945.
What I’m essentially asking for is the removal of the rangefinder, more powerful Maybach HL 234 engine and many small model changes that wouldn’t really matter in game into a separate vehicle something like “Tiger II 1945 upgrade” and the Tiger II 10.5cm just being the same as the tech tree Tiger II but with a 10.5cm at 6.7.
As in the original post, the rangefinder was constructed and tested, however the Tiger II 10.5cm in game still has -8° degrees of gun depression whereas the rangefinder should actually limit the gun to -6° for both the 8.8cm KwK 43 L/71 and 10.5cm L/68 as they both used the same breech design.
The engine, the Maybach HL 234 which is seen in the Tiger II 10.5cm, E 100 and Panther II in game was also constructed with 5 prototypes built with even 1-2 representing the final production model (the 2 sources I have disagree if it was 1 or 2) of the Maybach HL 234. The only thing I would change about the Maybach HL 234 would be to reduce the horsepower from 900 to 850 as while it could run at 900, it was unstable, so output had to be reduced to 850hp instead.
As for the Panther II, I think it should be added back in a more “realistic” state, with that being removal of the Maybach HL 234 engine and replacing it with the Maybach HL 230 P30 which it has in real life, remove of the OG 40 12 16 B gearbox and replacing it with the ZF AK 7-200 which it also has in real life and either having the Panther Ausf. G turret that was placed on it after it was captured by US forces or the unbuilt Schmale Blendenausfausführung with the 7.5cm KwK 42 L/70, I’m fine with either option.
Panther mit 8.8cm replacing the Panther II as an option for the Panther with an 8.8cm is tricky, the final design for the turret of the Panther mit 8.8cm was either never finished or has been lost. The bluepint you see online is of Krupp’s first design, which was rejected. Daimler-Benz’s first design was also rejected, which was actually built to the wooden mockup stage. Instead, it was decided in February 1945 to incorporate features from both the Krupp design and Daimler-Benz design into a unified design with features such as first stage ammo stowage in the turret, and a turret ring enlarged by 100mm. In summary: issues with adding the Panther mit 8.8cm lie within does Gaijin use the rejected Krupp design? Rejected Daimler-Benz design? Or the final design which we don’t have access to the drawings of as they have been lost and speculate as to what it looked like?
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If they brought 1 of them back each anniversary like the maus but in a rotation, including some other now unobtainables, it would be fine. It just sucks you can’t get them at all. Even the rarer late war stuff is at least in the SL boxes. Though good luck with that.
Also I’m still wondering why did they ever remove the Maus? They said “balance issues” as if this game doesn’t have a fair share of them already. Somehow the Maus is special in that regard.
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I also wouldn’t mind the Maybach HL 234 on tanks like the Tiger II, Jagdtiger and Panther F, as they would have received them and it would make German tanks more competetive at higher BRs.
Like imagine a Jagdtiger with 600 HP and then with 900 HP. It would be a night and day difference.
The French literally created their own Tiger 105 with the Samua SM, using an autoloader to solve the problem of the low RoF of the powerful cannon and using a 1000 HP engine practically based on the HL 234 (at least I’m pretty sure that France incoperated much of the German development into their own post-war prototypes).
There’s this protoype drum based autoloader for the Jagdpanther and there were also planes to develope one for the 75mm KwK 44 of the Panther F.
Then there’s the stabilized gun sight. Also used by French tanks after WW2. Planned for the Panther, not to mention night vision and rangefinders.
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Finally, we have an Sla Tiger II in the game, but that engine was mounted and tested on a Jagdtiger, in metal, to ascertain its performance. So a Jagdtiger Sla fully qualifies for implementation into the game.
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At the end of the day it’s all about money for Gaijin, so I truly believe those fakes will come back eventually in a carefully planned way of milking as much money as possible, probably through some mega FOMO event or even the auction house.
As you’ve said, Gaijin is willingly fabricating values of classified variables, effectively making those vehicles fake. They know they don’t have an alternative as those things will remain classified pretty much throughout the game’s lifetime, and they obviously have to focus on modern vehicles as they’re a great money maker.
That said, when they run out of modern stuff to add, cashing in on the highly wanted fakes seems like a no brainer from the business standpoint.
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my take on the Tiger II 105
according to these blueprints
blendenausfurung ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- blende
this one is tricky as you said
i managed to fit the 88mm according to the available BP
however, as you said above, it is the rejected design. it is possible though that the entire plan was dropped. not just this specific design. nevertheless, in terms of ‘historically accurate’, imo this would fit the quota
also i would love to see both designed (DB and krupp) side by side
EDIT:
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Unfortunately, the actual drawings for Daimler-Benz’s design don’t seem to exist anymore, however there remains descriptions of it compared to the Krupp design. The best source is RH 8/2788 which has a page that compared the 2 designs:
It states that the Daimler-Benz design is more of a redesign that uses a new Panther turret with a turret ring enlarged by 100mm, while the Krupp design is the conservative design that tried to change as little as possible outside necessary changes to mount the gun into the turret.
In Germany’s Panther Tank: The Quest for Combat Supremacy it’s stated that Wa Prüf 6 laid out a bunch of requirements for the Panther mit 8.8cm on the 27th February 1945 that and one of these requirements specified that the “rear wall of the turret was to be sloped instead of upright as was the case in the first wooden model from Daimler-Benz” so based on this little bit of information the Daimler-Benz wooden mockup maybe looked something like this:
(Disclaimer: Take this with a grain of salt, it is an edit of one of the Panther Ausf. F Schmalturm drawings from Panzer Tracts and based on available info, not an actual drawing to depict the Daimler-Benz woodem mockup for the Panther mit 8.8cm L/71.)
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this turret doesnt rlly seem capable of having the 88mm tho. especially since the trunnions would not fit, which is why the other diagram shows a turret front buldge to give it the extra space needed…
although i must say this is an interesting design of turret rears
EXCUSE ME WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTT???
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Yes, the Germans were working on rigidly mounted guns with some kind of stabilisation in the last futile months of R&D.
is it real ?
possibly. i suspect they made fair progress from feb to may as the war ended. as long as the project didnt stop earlier
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In many instances we will simply never know for sure, given how chaotic the last few months were tbh.
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There’s also this.
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First the Tiger II 105 shell being revised and now this
It’s funny how two vehicles that are ostensibly removed from the game still receive more care than actually obtainable ones.
If you’re going to sink limited developer resources into them, make the vehicles available. Anything less would be hypocritical.
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Except it doesnt.