F-5C idk, F-5E yes, but gaijin make it by soviet docs
23ML better than 5E in sustained, still
huh?
A situation where there’s a cloud of missiles flying at the plane, and you have to choose either you keep radar guiding your missile in hopes of hitting, or you have to go into a defensive maneuver with loss of control of the missile. I’m reminded of this poster for some reason
You need to try it, otherwise you cannot exactly understand how it actually plays. The problem that originated this whole discussion is that people that do NOT play both sides look at the “on paper” features of red and blue planes and because they look similar they assume they are in fact similar. And that’s why those people are screaming “skill issue” even when it doesnt make sense statistically speaking.
The problem is that what looks good or equal on paper is not actually good and equal in reality. In reality, playing Red is much harder than playing Blue. And it shows in winrate statistics.
I can assure you that if those guys actualy tried to use Red planes they also would get frustrated, because it’s not really anyone’s fault and it doesnt matter how good you are, you just know that when you play red you generally lose even if you play yourself a great match.
You didn’t play!1!1!1!1!1
And blues can do the same, no?
Better radars, ofc. Maybe 63PSP will be better than Zhuk’s in game? No, because 63PSP lacks of TWS.
FBW will not help you survive 2C stuff, where most of soviets dying now
Best ARHs now on red side - AAM-4 and PL-12.
Same range as amraam, but better maneuverability.
Best IR? No, AAM-3 on RED side is better. But still easy to dodge, at least if you have 5 braincells.
It is a completely valid criticism.
USA-only players love the theory craft that the MiG-29 is extremely good when it really isn’t. It’s whole gimmick at its tier is that it has 2 good radar missiles that are not exactly hard to defeat with chaff, notching, or just plain old multi-pathing on flat maps.
Su-27 loses the 1v1 match-up to basically every other top tier aircraft. I have done this time and time again in the F-15A.
The old MiG-23ML flight model won the dogfight as well…which is why I was bringing it up. Nomikoma had basically every possible advantage in his premium plane and was not able to double his results with it when it was artificially good.
peanits
Statements like these ruin Red side players’ credibility. It’s obviously exaggerated.
The real problem is not that MiG-29 is overall better, but that it’s better at the thing it’s supposed to be bad at and which U.S. planes are supposed to be good at - BVR, a lot better in fact.
R-27ER is hard to notch, the fact it has IOG + DL also forces you to stay in the notch, otherwise the enemy will just lock you again.
It used to have 73 000N booster with 2s burn time and 25 600N sustainer with 7s of burn time, in comparison AIM-7M has 26 940N booster with 4.5s of burn time and 6340N sustainer with 11s of burn time. Recently when I was investigating performance of R-27R, I found out that now in the files R-27ER has “only” 55 275N booster with 3.2s burn time. That may explain why Russian mains are trying to say now that R-27ER “was never even that good”. That’s a different topic though. I’m cooking a new thread, which will address this too.
One thing you have to consider now aday is that the phantoms were moved up to 12.0 whike the mig23 are still remains at 11.3 also the R73’s irccm os so much better than the Aim9m’s the R73 shrinks down its seeker head and ignores flares while the Aim9m turn off its seeker head so you can flare and turn the other direction yes i know in sim it is super hard to see a Aim9m because of it’s smokeless motor but then the su27 or mig29 smt can still launch a R73 that are really hard to flare and while yes the F8s are a problem at 10.0 a competent mig 21 player could beat a f8 player and when i personally while playing the f8 i whill shoot an aim9d and the person i shoot it at will have flares usually a mig 21 and yes russia doesnt have as many good stike planes the good stike planes have been moved up in br and also the mavericks the a7 and a10 get are the worse ones that have a really short lock range and by the time they get into range they are shot down by a strella or some other spaa for and no i have not played russia i have only played Isreal and America but also if we’re talking stike aircraft in ground battles i would like to bring up how overpowered the t72turms is as an abrams player i could not pen a good area of the front of the turms while the turms could pen me at most points on my tank and also the era armor on the turms just seemed to eat my apfsds shells and the battle rating that the turms sits at is stupid the techtree abrams sits at 10.3 while the turms sits at 10.0 and the turms has the 3BM42 which as better pen than any of the abrams shells
Comparing missiles wasnt even the point of the thread. There are many factors why Red team loses 70% of the games. Saying “they have this good missile” doesnt change the outcome. You could go on and on and on with comparisons, back and forth, and still you d never get to the point.
The problem doesnt have a single origin, it has many, and it is not only at top tier, it spans several BR, so focusing on one missile or one feature of this or the other side isnt really going to explain anything.
The R-27ER was never that good in sim because of 100m multipathing made it basically irrelevant for doing anything other than killing guys who went to altitude and third partying people that were in dogfights. The whole entire thought process behind reducing mulitpathing was because radar missiles were not meta-defining.
Now that they are a much larger part of the meta…the fact that the Aim-120 is just straight better, on a better airframe, and with a better radar means that USA just automatically wins most games even harder. The only good USSR players have tons of experience in the same plane and are basically just multipathing missiles at 60 meters and just playing with their radars off.
Guess what? USA planes can also do the exact same thing. I have played F-15A and F-16C against many of the people in this thread and they are not able to compete in red side planes. I would be willing to bet if you tried a red side plane you would also find that you are not able to compete either.
You missed that.
No no, I get that. I’m saying not to focus on one plane or one feature because that’s misisng the point. But if you were asking for my opinion, personally I believe the mig29 to be better at bvr compared to an f-16ADF but worse in bvr compared to F-14 and F-15
Even with the old Mig23 FM I would say the F-5E would win, I remember a match with CatboyRabies in the F-5E against several Mig-23, and the problem was the all aspect misiles they had.
You said that multipathing made R-27ER irrelevant, but we still have multipathing and AIM-120 isn’t irrelevant. You even said that experienced Red side players just multipath AIM-120s.
The only thing that changed was how difficult it is to multipath and how easy it is to breach the multipathing barrier while dogfighting and get 3rd partied. Right now it’s very hard to be within multipathing range while dogfighting, so 3rd parties became more important.
If you were flying 100m above the ground you were safe, but you were practically forbidden from flying in 99% of the airspace that was more than 100m above the ground. It was incredibly oppressive.
Nothing stopped Russian planes from flying high. SU-27s were often seen flying very high and dropping R-27ERs on top of people, bypassing multipathing that way or even RWR sometimes. If you tried to shoot them down, you either launched your Sparrow, kept flying low and let him just notch it without giving you position, or you tried to stay offensive, in which case he could just launch his R-27ER, even a few seconds after you launched, and he would still kill you first and save himself from your AIM-7.
You have much more options with R-77 against an AIM-120, than you had with AIM-7M against R-27ER, especially after R-77’s buff. It’s not even comparable.
On a side note multipathing forced players to dogfight in a single 2d plane and didn’t allow to use the vertical, which enhanced the performance of rate fighters.
F-14 can compete with the MiG-29 only because of AIM-54s, but not the F-15.
The quantity of missiles doesn’t change how good a plane is. It only limits how many kills you can get per 1 flyout. You’re OP, but you can’t suppress the whole lobby basically.
However now, when R-27ER has comparable thrust and burn time to an R-24R, but has low drag of an AIM-120, I don’t actually know how good R-27ER is.
Edit: Can someone explain why this was flagged as off-topic?
It’s funny how he says that Red side is unplayable, but then he gets a 26 kills game with 2 deaths. He even said one of those deaths was a teamkill.
F-16A can easily beat Mig-29 …
Today kryjev beated me twice with the Mig29, once with guns after a long dogfigth, once with an R-60 on a headon, both times because of my skill issue, the F.16 is better !!! I avoided the 27ER but failed in the close combat.
But normally Mig29 are just fast food for my F-16
I got 5 kills today in vautour 2N in 1 match. Does it mean its great? A TU-4 turns better than this
But 26 to 1 is insane. It’s not possible in an allegedly unplayable aircraft.