This is the answer I was looking for, 6.0-6.7 was a miserable BR prior to the decompression now they have reverted those changes for what? Someone was over performing in a tank? Now everyone has to suffer.
They should’ve decompressed BR from the top to bottom and not the other way around
I couldn’t have said it better
Why not ASA to 11.0 or 10.7 even, that plane is unplayable at 11.3. I suffer trying to spade it and getting F-16. Also KV-220 and 279 staying at their BRs really? Another german lineup ruined thanks Gaijin,Panthers were fine at 5.7, now they gonna meet IS-3 and will be useless. Nerfing the ZTZ59D1 noone even played in first place due to its too high BR is another change i dont understand,that tank is so bad it can retain its gen 1 thermals and stab and get moved to 8.3. T-55A can sit there,so can this on worse chassis having only advantage in the gen 1 thermals.
That’s a shame, looks like it doesn’t support console players since it hasn’t been updated. Would’ve been handy to see how many player kills I actually have instead of bots being mixed in
Considering the Type 16 and VRCC amount to more playtime than the next 10-12 most played, I would say choosing to push them up a BR without being absolutely certain they’re warping the game (and they aren’t, as I said the data shows they get kills, but don’t have an increased winrate) they could leave this change alone briefly.
Also, if you had bothered to look it up, for other nations the BR increase is keeping their light wheeled vehicle in line with the other premium at the same BR (i.e. the Type 16 and Type 74 G), so it is an issue specific to Italy and not any other nation affected by this change. Do your homework before speaking to adults.
I think mi-24v could be 9.3 because the line up for gr is good but no heli’s is unfortunet and there is alredy 3 9.7 heli’s. The mi-24v would get something worse or removed from it.
Dear Gaijin Developers,
Hello! I hope you are having a wonderful day. There is something I wish to remind you about when making BR changes to ground vehicles. There are THREE major “BR traps” in the game. This is when vehicles get pulled into matches at these BR’s regardless of the players vehicles BR being above or below the battle rating of the “trap.” The first BR trap is at 6.7. This is due to the large number of players who like to play the Tiger II heavy tanks. And there’s nothing wrong with this, Tiger II’s are cool! The next BR trap is at 10.0. This is due to many premium modern tanks being available for purchase at 10.0. These include the Wolfpack, TURMS-T, 2S38, CV90105, and ZTZ96A (P). All of these tanks are very popular with players and thus 10.0 is a very popular BR. The thing you need to understand is ANY TANK YOU PUT WITHIN 1.0 BR OF THESE “TRAPS” WILL HAVE TO PLAY AT THE BR OF THE TRAP. 5.7 and 6.0 tanks will play in 6.7 matches considerably more often. For example, the ZTZ88’s being moved to 9.0 dramatically increases the likelihood they will play in a 10.0 match, in which they will be at a severe disadvantage. These BR traps are even more prevalent at night when the servers are less populated. I am very much opposed to all of these proposed changes and I’m not the only one. Please read all of the comments on the forum, big or small. And also read comments from War Thunder YouTube channels covering these planned changes as not everybody uses the official WT forum. I feel that WWII up to 6.7 is pretty much perfect where it is. Matches for late WWII tanks are very competitive and a lot of fun. All tanks here have the ability to take each other out. The previous BR changes you made served to make late WWII even better. 10.0 and above is also in a very good position and I don’t think any changes need to be made here. BUT I didn’t say 2 BR traps… I said 3. The third BR trap, and biggest BR issue for ground forces at the moment, comes at 8.7. This is DIRECTLY due to the previous BR changes. Many Cold War era tanks were moved up to 8.7. Therefore, 8.7 became the “true” Cold War BR and thus 8.7 emerged as another BR trap. The main issue here is that the early Cold War HEAT era has to constantly mingle with the later Cold War APFS era. 8.0 tanks with HEAT and no laser rangefinder are constantly fighting tanks with high pen darts and range finders or even thermals! This makes 8.0 a pretty much useless BR to play at. Another problem is the occasional Type 16 or Rooikat managing to sneak its way into an 8.7 match. I think your focus should be on decompressing Cold War era tanks, not WWII or 9.0ish vehicles.
Honestly I think the game plays very very well where it is right now and these planned October changes are not needed. The few tanks left behind at 8.0 are at a disadvantage right now but 8.7 itself is an awesome BR to play at right now. Pretty much all matches are fair and competitive right now. You guys have done a lot of work to make the game better and it shows! I’m enjoying the game right now more than I ever have before! When planning BR changes for ground vehicles keep in mind those 3 BR traps. 6.7, 8.7, and 10.0 truly dictate the nature of a War Thunder match. Thank you all for reading my comment. I hope you have a wonderful day!
Sincerely,
Someone who plays War Thunder a bit too much
Kugelblitz is not fine at 7.0. Spaas like btr-zd, sub 1-2 and r3 are much better for anti air. The armor on the kugelblitz is overrated aswell. The turret and hull roof can be easily penned by 50. call.
The pen is nothing special either anymore. 77mm pen at 0° with apcr values on angles is not good anymore.
https://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/germ_flakpanzer_IV_Kugelblitz
21% winrate, 0.61 air frags per death and 0.15 ground frags per death is very much below average (with 286 battles last month)
It should move down to 6.7 and better yet remove the hvap and put it at 6.0. It’s useless at 7.0
Vidar need to go up higher. 8.0 ain’t enough. I have it. And even at 9.3 i have no issues with getting kills on MBT’s.
And on the heli changes. Good to see that they are going up in BR. But why only western helis? Ka-50 should go up in BR aswell.
Please consider giving the British Phantoms finally its AIM-9Ls.
The FGR. 1, FGR.2 and F4J (UK) are literally the bottom of the bottom of the barrel. Comparing them to the F4S and F4J is just unfair due to them having BOTH HMD and Aim 7Fs while the british sit stuck with 9Gs and the Skyflashes, especially the Skyflashes are absolutely abysmal compared to 7Fs.
It would also give it more separation with the other phantoms. While American 11.3 Phantoms have the higher ground in SARH, the british ones could be better in close range.
Also there is a seperation with the Tornado, while the tornado has better radar and SARH, it has worse airframe then the FGRs.
Also it would be historical for the british Phantoms to FINALLY get their AIM-9Ls
This is really funny to me. I still remember that the T20 was argued to stay at 6.0 and how it was totally fair that it can fight IS-3s.
Now the Panthers and Tiger E are at 6.0 and all of sudden it’s completely unfair and broken that now they have to deal with IS-3s in an uptier.
The OP you replied to had good points.
But your propositions… Even for sarcasm these are too retarded.
“Kv 85: needs 5.0” Kv 85 at the same br as vk 3002 💀
“Pt-76: 5.3 with full stab and HEAT-FS move that thing to 6.0”
It has only 200mm pen and no armor, wdym???
“Is-3: super OP at 7.0 gajin should nerf it to 7.3”
If only is-6 will go to 7.7
“Su-122-54 & Object 268: Both are still 6.7 with HEAT-FS, how about move them both to 7.0 or 7.3”
Is this a joke? 1) Object 268 doesnt even have HEAT-FS. 2)I find it funny that not once have you said anything about germans in your version. Jaghtiger is better than object 268 in every way. why should it remain 6.7 and object go to 7.0 or 7.3? 3)Su-122-54 has can hardly bounce anything, bringing it to 7.3 is a death sentence. 4)If you hate HEAT-FS tanks so much, why wont you take a look at m-51 and ikv 103
“Is-1: 5.7 or 6.0” is-1 fighting against amx-m4, centurions and tiget 2(h)… 💀
If you are no longer going to develop your game then stop charging a subscription for premium.
Running balancing changes on auto pilot only taking in to account internal statistics on win rate means you’re ignoring two key factors which makes War Thunder the game that it is.
Historical context
Lineup potential
A Tiger E should not be facing an IS-3, ever
More important than balance is the ability for a player to take a lineup of minimum of 3 vehicles in to a BR range and play it which some expectation that they are on an even footing.
Moving vehicles around arbitrarily based on random monthly data is not good for the game’s health. Any change to battle rating for a vehicle should take in to context the feasibility of balance (the MAUS can not be placed historically), the historical balance of a vehicle (The Tiger E should not be facing Cold War tanks), and the potential for that vehicle to be used in a lineup.
Better in every way you say?
I didn’t know the Jagdtiger had:
i think that the Panthers should not go to 6.0 they were pretty balanced at 5.7 same for the tiger E (even tho lot of people complained about it being “overpowered”) they are good without over performing, if people strugle with it they should learn how to counter it rather than complain about it being too OP, i don’t think its good to have tigers E and Panthers facing IS3 and T44-100, same for the M26 that are going up to 6.7 that is not justified, they are still not overperforming at their current BR, plus i wonder why the tech tree variant are all going up in BR but not the premium variant like the M26-T99 and the M26 DC Ariete, pls don’t up BR them and stop touching the br that dosn’t need to change. there is a lot more vehicles that should move in BR, not the panthers not the tigers and not the pershing. i hope u listen to this and stop yourselve from doing these br changes before u kill the 5.7 br ♥
With all those helicopters moving up where is the change for RU?
Vikhr shouldnt be a thing on BR 10.3 were countering it is next to impossible (first SAM´s which can catch the Ka-50 reliable are on 11.7).
And you forgot to add that the Obj 268 additionally has much better frontal protection vs the Jagdtiger’s APHE, than viceversa.
Based on some of the things I’m reading in this thread, the Jagdtiger should be the most OP vehicle in WT. Weird that in the thousands of battles I’ve played with it, there weren’t more people using it. Guess it will be spammed once people realise that it’s so strong. :D
(For the record, I think Obj 268 at 6.7 is fine)
Very broad description I am not trying to go into incredible detail, however I guess I will. The Tigers and Panthers are flankers and should be played at long range 90% of German Mains do not and still don’t understand this. Secondly I am a Heavy tank player, I know my weakspots and usually the enemies when saying point and click that is referring to a majority of tanks at that BR ie, medium tanks. Say what you want about “stalinium” on the 85 9/10 engagemen ts go exactly as they should with the Tiger. The main issue is the Panther, which can be used as a HT, seriously hiw the hell can you defend that. Especially seeing how the counter to the damn thing has been the IS-2/ the Russian 122 at 6.0 the Panther is fine, and will do fine. Yeah the tiger is gonna struggle a bit more due to the gun just not being good. B-but it has to fight >insert heavy tank here, yeah you now have to flank, seriously what 90% of people who are upset at these changes forget, ypu have to play way more reserved in an uptier. Again this is true for most tanks even the 279 which you can’t just hold W and win. Ironically it is easier to kill a Toger 2P than an Panther at range. Less explosive filler is your worry, yeah no don’t even try to argue that when you and I both damn well knoe the only thing stopping oneshots is very open vehicles like the Tortoise. The turret traverse isn’t as big of an issue as ypu make it. Yes it is very slow, and is one of the worst features about it, however it can still flank, you still have a hull than can turn, you can use that it really isn’t hard. Nonexistent reverse isn’t an issue if you aren’t over committing in the first place, ie not flanking into their spawn alone. 6.p isn’t the whole awful thing everyonr is making it out to be, a vast majority of those people who are solely complaining about this, are whining because they don’t get to abuse 4.7 tanks anymore with vehicles like the Panther that for a medium tank have fuckin tiny weakspots, god forbid the player has bushes.
Alrighty there sport, you are seriously going to be complaining about the PT-76B you know the vehicle that is so utter dogshit using a the BT-7M as an LT or the BT-7A is somehow way more viable. The only advantage the PT has is that it is fully stabilized which is like the only good thing about it. It has less speed than a Tiger, literally no armor, and can be one tapped by American. 50 cals. The KV-220 should absolutely go up, even as someone who plays it on the regular when I am with friends wjo are trying to grind out 5.7 I think that thing should be 6.3 at the bare minimum or give it the 107 and put it at 6.7. That thing is bonkers.
In conclusion you are so worried about it fighting the T-95 when we all know you can easily out flank and destroy it, 15kph isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. Yeah the IS-3s are a problem until you realize in that 6.0 line up you have a Jagdpanther, which can smoke an IS-3 provided you aim for weakspots. Most of the medium tanks you fight are on par with the Panther, and no shit fighting HTs in an upteir isn’t fun. However these complaints are only valid if you are playing like the usual German main and not exploiting anything good about your vehicle, or the map you are on.
Apparently you “forgot” to add some russian vehicles to the list. Here, let me add them for you:
T-55AM1 8.7-> 9.0 - Better than the T-69 II G in survivability and fire power, which BR is increasing. It’s a really strong vehicle for that BR. The frontal ERA give it a really good protection against HEAT used by 7.7-8.3 vehicles. The missiles are accurate and deadly. I’m average player with a 5.5KD with it, which means the thing overperforming by far.
Object 279 8.7->9.0 - Possibly the strongest 8.7 vehicle in the game. The thing is sea clubbing everything at that BR, after all there is no counterpart. Basically, if you have a couple of them in your team, you won’t lose.
I agree.
However, Germany has by far the most consistently capable heavies for their BR and highest proportion of heavy vehicles at most BRs, making it an excellent indicator for balancing heavies of other nations.
I understand the frustration of constantly capping points only for the other two to fall due to incompetent teammates. Mobility is really useful in this situations. That being said, most of the game especially at mid BR is spent contesting and defending points. There is certainly success to be had by staying mobile and being aggressive, but there is also equal success to be had holding down a position. It all depends on playstyle.
Sorry, this is my bad for poor communication. I assumed shooting at weaker points in armour was assumed and took it for granted. By “brain off” I don’t mean in terms of shooting but in terms of positioning and avoiding enemy fire.
In my experience, most people’s struggles with heavy tanks comes from driving in the open straight towards the point expecting not to get shot. Rarely do people do the same with medium tanks but because the heavier vehicle’s armour is better they assume that it can wholly be relied upon for survival.
Honestly just a problem of positioning. Sticking with teammates makes this largely a non-issue, but if you ever find yourself alone against a larger force there’s a few simple steps that can greatly increase your survivability, especially at very close range:
Agree to disagree I guess. Even before last month’s changes, I believe the Jagdtiger (and 268) would continue to excell at 7.0. I more frequently than not run the Jagdtiger and Jagdpanther at 7.7 with equal success as at their respective BRs.
I said no such thing. The argument that heavy tanks/TDs are underpowered “due to mobility” is just generally a cry of Wehraboos who simply don’t know how to use the tanks that you accurately described as extremely powerful.
If you felt called out, that’s on you man ;)
I’ll give you credit, you’ve got a lot of experience in the JT. The problem is balance in inherently relative. You cannot BALANCE a vehicle with COMPARING it to other similar vehicles of other nations around the BR. Balance cannot be done in a vacuum, and you don’t exactly seem to have that multi-nation qualification.
