Planned Battle Rating changes for the month of October

[TyTheGuy27]

@AurenKarach

The question of how to balance heavy armour is hardly relevant for Germany alone, it isn’t even the tech tree with most heavies, and has no postwar heavies, unlike America and the USSR.

I agree.
However, Germany has by far the most consistently capable heavies for their BR and highest proportion of heavy vehicles at most BRs, making it an excellent indicator for balancing heavies of other nations.

@AurenKarach

This isn’t true in a game built around capping points and pushing positions.

I understand the frustration of constantly capping points only for the other two to fall due to incompetent teammates. Mobility is really useful in this situations. That being said, most of the game especially at mid BR is spent contesting and defending points. There is certainly success to be had by staying mobile and being aggressive, but there is also equal success to be had holding down a position. It all depends on playstyle.

@AurenKarach

The whole reason why 6.7 is my favourite BR is that knowing weakspots is crucial

Sorry, this is my bad for poor communication. I assumed shooting at weaker points in armour was assumed and took it for granted. By “brain off” I don’t mean in terms of shooting but in terms of positioning and avoiding enemy fire.
In my experience, most people’s struggles with heavy tanks comes from driving in the open straight towards the point expecting not to get shot. Rarely do people do the same with medium tanks but because the heavier vehicle’s armour is better they assume that it can wholly be relied upon for survival.

@AurenKarach

18 seconds are an eternity. Unless you’re on a long range map, of which we have fewer and fewer, that’s enough for people to push and flank you, or take out your barrel and tracks

Honestly just a problem of positioning. Sticking with teammates makes this largely a non-issue, but if you ever find yourself alone against a larger force there’s a few simple steps that can greatly increase your survivability, especially at very close range:

1. Use cover. 18 seconds might be long for a reload but it takes longer to advance around a corner and line up a shot
2. StuG wiggle. Especially on tanks without muzzle breaks, a small wiggle makes it rather difficult to actually damage a barrel.
3. Charge. Such a large, imposing tank is bound to cause panic in the enemy. Combined with excellent armour that requires precise aim to kill, a charging, wiggling Jagdtiger can survive dozens of shots and get plenty of time to reload. This tactic is particularly effective at the noob-heavy BR of 6.7

@AurenKarach

it’s not 7.0 material

Agree to disagree I guess. Even before last month’s changes, I believe the Jagdtiger (and 268) would continue to excell at 7.0. I more frequently than not run the Jagdtiger and Jagdpanther at 7.7 with equal success as at their respective BRs.

@AurenKarach

I also find it hilarious that you obliquely refer to me as a Wehraboo

I said no such thing. The argument that heavy tanks/TDs are underpowered “due to mobility” is just generally a cry of Wehraboos who simply don’t know how to use the tanks that you accurately described as extremely powerful.
If you felt called out, that’s on you man ;)

I’ll give you credit, you’ve got a lot of experience in the JT. The problem is balance in inherently relative. You cannot BALANCE a vehicle with COMPARING it to other similar vehicles of other nations around the BR. Balance cannot be done in a vacuum, and you don’t exactly seem to have that multi-nation qualification.

[ehj78]

For the AMX TO 90 and the 25t, you have to rise their penetration if you want to put them in 7.7 …
It was already very hard to pen heavies and medium, now it’s going to be even worse ! And let’s not forget that the 7.7 br is almost always facing 8.0 or .3 so the only thig you’ll be able to hit are light tanks …

[Melancholia_Mari]

@PapaFox2007

Object 279 8.7->9.0 - Possibly the strongest 8.7 vehicle in the game. The thing is sea clubbing everything at that BR, after all there is no counterpart. Basically, if you have a couple of them in your team, you won’t lose.

9.0 is going to make the thing neigh unusable except for the random Gaijin moments, seriously putting it up there when it has no thermals and no counter to them ie somke grenades at 10.0 you get to fight shit that you can’t even hope of penetrating frontally. Until 9.0-10.0 is decompressed it really shouldn’t go up. Ince the Thermal Dart Slingers are moved up to 10.0 and stay there, I have no issues with the 279 going up.

[ChadJackChurchil]

why the hell is the M26 moving to 6.7 when it can’t pen a king tiger frontally? Either buff M82 or leave the battle rating alone. The KV-1 (Zis 5) moving up is fine but what about the KV-1E and KV-1B the should also move 4.7. Tiger II (P) should also not be moved to the same BR as the Tiger II (H) the P has no advantages over the H. And why isn’t the IS-3 moving up? RIP Tiger 1 players fighting IS-3s

[TelesiaK]

I m lost for words on what you are doing yet again. You dont even care about anything just letting the algorithm do its job

[Melancholia_Mari]

@FlipAllTheTables

No other tank in the game has the exact same gun as the Super Pershing.

I think you forgot the super heavy Pershings the T-32s with a god awful reload that are at 7.3 and 7.7 respectively. Which are also using the 90mm

[Martin3825]

Additional changes = 2S38 from 10.0 to 11.7 because completly overpowered at 10.0 vs others 9.0 to 10.3/7 tanks, too much survivability, too much damages and no limit of APFSDS => a better OTOMATIC at 11.0 without apfsds limit so 11.7

[FlipAllTheTables]

@BTTankMasterRace

I think you forgot the super heavy Pershings the T-32s with a god awful reload that are at 7.3 and 7.7 respectively. Which are also using the 90mm

I said “the exact same gun” for a reason.

The Super Pershing uses the T15E1 90 mm. The T32s use the T15E2.

The difference is that the T15E2 uses separated ammunition, the T15E1 uses single piece ammunition.

[Adrian_T03]

Top tier air should be moved to at least 12.7, even though I would’ve prefered to move them even to 13.0. There are just to many IRCCM missiles between 11.0 and 12.3 and many aircraft are just not capable enough, with some not even having countermeasures while facing high maneuverng missiles. Su-25BM is a huge mistake at 11.0, R-73 facing F4-C’s, Nesher’s, Mirage 5f’s, F-1’s and many others is just nuts and not fair at all. I feel like 0.3/0.4 br increase with every new top tier jet is just too small of a change, and also lets take in count various bugs with new system implemented that can make new aircraft either too strong or less capable of how it was excpected to be (MiG-29 is example, its radar barely worked until R27ER got added and had F-14A’s flight model until they changed it couple days later). WT has got up to the point where more and more complex systems are about to be added and you just simply can’t balance hundreds of vehicles by moving them up in br by 0.3 or 0.4 increase, battle ratings in my opinion need complete rework with much higher br bracket between some vehicles.

This is how I would try to do:
-13.0:
MiG-29SMT, F-16C, F-16D Barak II

-12.7:
MiG-29, F-16A/ADF/MLU/Netz, F-14B, Mirage 2000-5F, Yak-141

12.3: NO VEHICLES! BR BARRIER!

-12.0:
Harrier GR.7/AV-8B Plus, Mirage 2000C-S, F-14A, MiG-23ML/MLA/MLD, F-4EJ KAI

-11.7:
F-4J/S/UK, MiG-23M/MF, Mirage 2000D-R1, JA37D, Su-25T/BM/39, Tornado IDS (1995)/ASSTA1/GR.1, Tornado F.3/ADV, J8-F, Kfir C.7, Kurnass 2000

-11.3:
F5-E’s, F5-A (chinese variant), J8-B, J-7D/E, MiG-21Bis (all nations), Phantom FGR.2/FG.1, MiG-27K/M (if we are not counting ground ordinance they perform basicaly the same), Su-17M4, Su-22M4, F-104S.ASA, JA37C, AJS37, Mirage F1C/F1CT/F1C-200, A10-A Late, Kfir C.2, Tornado IDS

-11.0:
F-4E, F4-EJ/EJ ADTW, Kurnass, Saab J35XS, A10-A, Su-25/25K, A-7D/E/K, F-104S/S TAF

10.7:
F-8E, F-5C, MiG-21SMT/MF, F-104G (all nations), F-4F, F-4F Early, Su-22UM3K/M3, Su-17M2, Sea Harrier FRS.1, F-1 (if it gets flares at some point), Mirage IIIE, Jaguar A, Kfir Canard.

It took me quite good part of the day to come up with this, and now I realise how much time it takes to put something up in terms of Br changes and how fucked up it actualy is, tried to start with 12.7 but had to increase to 13.0 because I couldnt find a way what aircraft should and should’n face some other aircraft. Here I also find aircraft that are not capable enought to face some higher tiered aircraft, so I came with an idea of a br barrier to balance some lower performing aircraft.

And also im thinking of putting out entire list with all aircrafts in game as a separate forum topic, this is down just to 10.7 to just make an example what can be done when you have enough room to maneuver and experiment.

[thethrill820]

CN F104G should go 10.3

[TyTheGuy27]

Gotta disagree specifically on the MiG-21bis. Fighting PD with the shit SPS-141 RWR and no effective radar missiles is hell and it ought not be brought CLOSER to the PD F-4s.
Also why not a couple aircraft (F-14A for example) at 12.3?

[AurenKarach]

@BTTankMasterRace

The Tigers and Panthers are flankers and should be played at long range 90% of German Mains do not and still don’t understand this.

Like I said, I agree that Tiger Is are flankers. It’s how I use them. They are honestly tremendous at that job. Panthers, however, might be my skill issue what do you want me to tell you, but I find them to be worse at flanking than Tigers, while they are better at sniping. They have enough mobility to get to a good position early, but I wouldn’t trust them like I trust a Tiger to, for example, suddenly react to an M18 popping up next to me while I’m flanking.

Of course this is also map dependent to a degree, flanking in small Ardennes? Yeah, definitely Tigers. Flanking on Hurtgen Forest? Panthers can do that a little better there, because of the extra range.

As for being used at long range: yes, I know. That’s why I’m continually frustrated by the prevalence of CQC maps in this game.

@BTTankMasterRace

The main issue is the Panther, which can be used as a HT, seriously hiw the hell can you defend that.

If you look at what I’ve been posting in this thread, as well as in the past, my opinion can more or less be summarised as “Panther A and G would be fine at 6.0” and “Tiger H1 is fine at 5.7 but Tiger E should stay there”. The Panthers bit is actually something I’ve said many times in the past. Ironically enough the only Panther that I really dislike using is the F at 6.0, but that’s probably just a me thing.

@BTTankMasterRace

yeah you now have to flank, seriously what 90% of people who are upset at these changes forget, ypu have to play way more reserved in an uptier.

Like I said, I already do. There’s a reason our friends and I jokingly call Tigers “the M18s”. We use them as flankers.

@BTTankMasterRace

Ironically it is easier to kill a Toger 2P than an Panther at range.

True. Bizarre, but true.

@BTTankMasterRace

Less explosive filler is your worry, yeah no don’t even try to argue that when you and I both damn well knoe the only thing stopping oneshots is very open vehicles like the Tortoise.

I think my comment wasn’t clear enough, so I’ll try to explain myself again. I think Panthers are better snipers than Tigers, and Tigers are better flankers than Panthers. This is due to many reasons, the explosive filler being only one of these reasons.

When you’re sniping, the absolute pen and stable ballistics over long range mean that it doesn’t really matter if the Panther has less explosive filler, it will be able to have prolonged sniping duels and survive, or cripple the enemy and duck back to cover, etc. But when you’re flanking, possibly in really close quarters like say small Ardennes, you can’t afford to take 2-3 shots to kill a tank. Of course broadside Panthers are very lethal, it’s just that Tigers give you a better chance of actually one-hit-killing the target you’re flanking, which allows you to focus on the next “bad guy” that might be coming your way.

@BTTankMasterRace

The turret traverse isn’t as big of an issue as ypu make it.

In many circumstances, it isn’t. When you’re flanking, it is.

@BTTankMasterRace

you still have a hull than can turn, you can use that it really isn’t hard.

Tbh the condescension behind most of the stuff you say is really grating. Yes, I know what neutral steering is, thank you very much. But if a Hellcat appears on my 3 while I’m flanking someone else, I would rather be in a Tiger than a Panther, if given the choice, because the Tiger will be quicker to reorient towards the new threat, and likelier to survive the first shot if it’s rushed. Tell me what exactly is wrong about this preference, please.

@BTTankMasterRace

Alrighty there sport, you are seriously going to be complaining about the PT-76B

No, “sport”. I’m not talking about the PT-76B, which is a godawful vehicle and is fine where it is. If it was any higher, nobody would play it. I was thinking about the Praga and its full HVAP belt.

@BTTankMasterRace

That thing is bonkers.

Yeah.

@BTTankMasterRace

when we all know you can easily out flank and destroy it,

I think so long as the cupola shot works, the T-95 is almost BR agnostic, but I’m not as sure about the side armour, mate. That’s far less reliable to pen even in the lower hull at 90 degrees with 6.7 guns.

@BTTankMasterRace

Yeah the IS-3s are a problem until you realize in that 6.0 line up you have a Jagdpanther,

Right. Which is part of the problem: at that same BR, you have such an obviously better choice in pretty much every respect, it’s fast, it has trolly frontal armour, it has the long '88. Hell, I think the Jagdpanther should be 6.3. I seriously don’t see how the Tiger E and the Jagdpanther should be at the same BR.

@BTTankMasterRace

provided you aim for weakspots.

That is a given at these BRs. Even a Maus has to aim for weakspots if it wants to pen an IS-3.

@BTTankMasterRace

However these complaints are only valid if you are playing like the usual German main and not exploiting anything good about your vehicle,

I would really not make this into a discussion about personal stats, because I hate those, and they don’t lend anything to my or your arguments. But since your entire comment is essentially positing that I only “complain” because I’m the average German main who needs to “gid gud”, I have positive win rates and reasonable K/ds in Panthers A and G, and Tigers H1 and E, which are the vehicles affected. Not sure why you feel like it matters, but alright. We can always play together, if you feel that it’s so important to assessing my arguments.

I guess it’s an average German main thing to say that the M26 shouldn’t go up, too. 🙄

[Imaflyingturkey]

@SergeyKKK

“Is-1: 5.7 or 6.0” is-1 fighting against amx-m4, centurions and tiget 2(h)… 💀

He wanted the Jumbo 75 to fight that

Sure he has “some” good points for the lower tier stuff but the high tier stuff is a complete rant considering he only has soviet and germany

and the reason for the specific targeting of soviet vehicles is because that is what he had been defending alot.

and also sorry to cherrypick but like you said with the object 268 it doesnt have heatfs i would advise you to look at the M-51 again to check the shells

[mYrOcK]

I would say that the Ka-50 definetly also need to go up in br or have it’s Vikhr missiles removed as 10km missiles are way too good at 10.0 no matter what helicopter platform you put it on

[Cpt_Bel_V]

Game balance is shattered,…

The game baalnce should be resetted completely over 15.0 BR instead of 12.3 currently.

The game NEEDS that.

[A_Cute_Chihuahua]

Gaijin, it is literally not decompression unless every single time you decompress, you move up every single tank above that by a fixed amount. Otherwise you’re just re-compressing what you decompressed before.

We are not stupid. Kindly stop treating us like we are stupid. It is very rude.

Also, raising the highest BR, but then only doing it when you also add a bunch of top tier tanks is not decompression either, because you increased the number of vehicles keeping the density the same.

[阿共仔欸阴谋]

f4s mig23ml ab should go to 11.3
692g shouldnt go to 9.0, unless get a boost in rage of fire.

[阿共仔欸阴谋]

yes it is br compression.

[_Woe]

Gaijin should change the matchmaker to +/- .7 BR for a week to see what people think. Just revert if it’s not good.

[AlvisWisla]

All Soviet top vehicles are BR’d the same as all other top vehicles.

@aDSD
It was moved to 8.7 from 8.3.