Panther II: King Panther (Schmale Blendenausführung)

Armen_Lozone · February 4, 2025, 5:22pm

Panther II

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King Panther

(^ is not the historical Panther II)

No weaknesses

The PanzerKampfWagen V “Panther”, was one of the most produced and most effective armoured vehicles of the Second World War. Even regarded by some as the first MBT ever made, it struck fear into the hearts of those who faced it. At longer ranges, Allied crews would mistake it for the King Tiger heavy tank due to the similar shapes.

The Panther I was a game changer in many regards to the German armed forces in WWII. The frontal sloped armour, designed by taking inspiration from the soviet T-34s sloped UFP, proved highly effective and with German technology, it allowed the Army to outperform many allied tanks.

During its time the Panthers designers and engineers ironed out many faults and issues with the tank. It went through a number of different variants and gradually increased in its survivability and reliability. Then came the eastern front. Although the soviet T-34 tanks were no match for the panther tanks head on… A different enemy appeared. No, it was not the KV-1, or the KV-2, IS-1 or the IS-2. No, this enemy was smaller, much more… nimble.

Soviet anti tank infantry. Armed with powerful 14.5mm anti tank rifles. They pierced the vunerable side armour of the panther tanks at ranges the Panthers had to hope of detecting them, damaging components and injuring, if not killing the crew.

Hull

The German engineers started thinking of ways to fix this vulnerability. In the midst of the war, as was common with German tank designers, they went for the more ambitious and ‘wunderwaffe’ route. They upgraded the entire tank and named it the Panther II. The successor. In doing so, they increased nearly all armour plates by 20mm in thickness and produced a prototype hull. How ever this was as far as they got in terms of hardware and the Panther II project was cancelled in May 1943. Thus the Panther II has the status of an unfinished prototype.

– From Panzer tracts

Turret

They started off with a new type of turret with a smaller frontal profile. The Schmale Blendenausführung was a derivation of the Panther G turret, but, to the modern enthusiast, would spark familiarity with the Schmalturm of the Panther F. Contrary to popular belief, the Schmalturm was never designed for the Panther II. It was designed AFTER the Panther II project ceased.

Below is the representation of the Schmale Blendenausführung. If you take a look at the rear, it resembles the all too familiar panther A/D/G turret.

But from the front, it features a smaller profile, familiar to the ‘Schmalturm’.

From the side and top:

Now, the turret of the panther II was never made, however the design is clear to be a derivation, or more fittingly, a successor of the Panther G turret. As for those who are wondering about the big picture of the Panther II at the beginning of this article, and how the turret looks nothing like the one shown here, read on.

The Schmale Blendenausführung was designed in 1943 but as design work was going on, the project was canned. The turret designs were then used as a proposal for a new standard Panther I turret (which never happened nor was even considered by the German Army). You may read the rest of its story below in the comments.

All in all, the panther II is an amazing vehicle for armoured vehicle enthusiasts and holds a near legendary and fantasy aura to it.

Testing

The Panther II was only tested by MAN as a prototype hull with test weights for the turret. Eventually an engineer realised the main problem could be solved much more simply (and cheaper) by mounting side skirts to break up the anti tank rifle rounds and achieve the desired protection levels.
Later after capture, it was taken to the US where it was mated to a Ausf G turret and went to Aberdeen proving grounds for tests. It now rests in the US Army Armour and Cavalry Collection in Fort Moore.

Technical Specifications

— Mobility —
Weight: ~50 t (around 51t with HL 230 and 234 and around 50t with GT 101/2/3)
Engine: HL 230 P 30 (mounted), HL 234 (planned/considered) or GT 101/2/3 turboshaft (planned/considered)
Power: 700hp @ 3000rpm (HL 230), 900hp (HL 234), 1150hp (GT 101/2/3)
Top speed: 55kmph (theoretical), ~40kmph on road, (not measured with the GT 101 but likely this is restricted by the transmission rather than the engine.)
Power/weight: ~13.5 hp/t, ~17hp/t, ~23hp/t
Transmission: Zahnradfabrik AK 7/200
Gearbox: 7 forward, 1 reverse
Suspension: Torsion bar

*NOTE: The GT 101 series produced around the same hp but the improvements merely reduced wearing and size of the engine and its components.

Images of HL 230 and diagrams of HL 234 (a lot)

HL 230

HL 234

— Armament —
Main gun: 1 x 75mm Kw.K.42
Secondary gun(s): 2 x MG.34 (1 in hull and 1 co-axial)(plus 1 possibly for anti aircraft purposes)
Elevation: -8, +20 degrees
Traverse: 360 degrees
Gun sight: T.Z.F.12 (2.5x to 5x zoom)
Stereoscopic Rangefinder (Schmale Blendenausführung): No
Stereoscopic Rangefinder (Schmale Blende): Yes

— Ammunition —

75mm
Count: 82 rounds
Types and performance:

— Protection —

Crew: 5

– From panzer tracts

– Turm Panther II (schmale Blendenausführung), Design number: H-SKA 86176
Front: 120mm
Sides: 60mm
Back: 40-60mm
Roof: 30mm

Extra info here

88mm gun

Contrary to popular belief, the 88mm gun was never destined for the Panther II. The blueprint diagrams (see below) of the 88mm turret proposal were for standard production panthers to receive as an upgrade to their firepower to deal with American and Soviet heavy tanks such as the T-32 and IS-2.
There are however some authors and historians who state that there might have been desires to mount the 88mm on the panther II near the end of its time, but nothing became of them.

As such, the 88mm Panther II is a fake vehicle.

Original diagram of the 88mm gun turret

As you can see, it is VERY faded

88mm gun testing against IS-2 (mod.1944) glacis

The gun could reliably penetrate the UFP at around 450m and the LFP at even larger distances, compared to the 75mm which could not penetrate the UFP at any range.

NVD

While there were NVDs made by Germany during WWII and even mounted on some panther tanks, the Panther II was never mounted with them (never had a turret), although in theory it should be able to mount them.

In War Thunder

In my humble opinion, The Panther II should be implemented with some very interesting modifications as upgrades.

Firstly the turret. Though the 1944 turret was designed later, i believe it should be stock as it may be less effective and the 1943 turret should be available as an armour upgrade modification.

Secondly the engine. Though the prototype was only mounted with the HL 230, it was planned with all three engines being the HL 230, 234 and GT 101 (only listed one because functionally the same). Hence it should come with the HL-230 as stock, HL 234 as engine upgrade 1 and the GT 101 as engine upgrade 2.

Visual References

The Panther II hull as it was captured

(Right to left)Panther A, Panther G and Panther II

Panther II in the US before it was fitted with the G turret next to it

Panther II walk around (many pictures)

Sources

Videos

https://youtu.be/b62mPM_dE7g?si=B5yxOxwxAqnEXfcS
https://youtu.be/Fr08vMmfowg

Thanks for reading!

Armen_Lozone · February 4, 2025, 5:26pm

Continuation of the story of the Schmale Blende (as only 1 turret can be suggested):

The Schmale Blendenausführung was designed in 1943 but as design work was going on, the project was canned. The turret designs were then used as a proposal for a new standard Panther I turret (which never happened nor was even considered by the German Army).

The turret, designed over and over again during and after the Panther II project, was named the Schmale Blende by 1944. Post project designs show an interesting and unique turret shape, which, while strikes some small similarities from the rear, differs in every other way:

The new turret was to have an Entfernungsmesser (range finder) and for that reason, the roof peak was raised to 960mm to accommodate the device. It was to have a roof periscope as the gunner sight, but the design does not incorporate such a device. you can however see a roof mounted periscope sight on the Schmalturm on the panther F. That’s because the design work by Rheinmetall for the Schmala Blende was used to help in the design of the Schmalturm made by Daimler-Benz

NER055 · February 4, 2025, 5:30pm

Finally you got this theme for voting. Good job :)

Armen_Lozone · February 4, 2025, 5:31pm

thanks, my first work on WWII vehicles, and its the most legendary of em all

NER055 · February 4, 2025, 5:32pm

One of them…

Kingtiez · February 4, 2025, 5:38pm

I already know what kind of comments that will be said about this one and from who.
+1

Surbaissemaxxing · February 4, 2025, 5:42pm

+1 For the true Panther II

Gura_Gawr · February 4, 2025, 5:46pm

+1 for the actual panther 2 to be added

simsimkek · February 4, 2025, 5:51pm

+1, I think the Panther 2 should be brought back as two separate tanks through adding this and a standard Panther with a krupp 88 turret

WreckingAres283 · February 4, 2025, 5:53pm

+1 Will be nice to have two Panther II in a line up )))

Armen_Lozone · February 4, 2025, 5:53pm

88 was never intended for P II (sadly)
as you can see in the suggestion post

simsimkek · February 4, 2025, 5:55pm

Not a panther 2, i meant instead of bringing back the fake panther 2 with an 88, we can get two sepearate tanks, the panther 2 in your suggestion and a standard panther with the krupp 88 panther turret

Armen_Lozone · February 4, 2025, 5:56pm

hmm but that would be… fake…?

simsimkek · February 4, 2025, 5:57pm

Fake? the krupp designs for a panther turret with an 88 are real and production was issued to refit existing panthers right before the war ended

Caernarvon02 · February 4, 2025, 5:58pm

If panther F and maus is allowed then Panther ii (in its correct form) should be allowed

BasherBenDawg8 · February 4, 2025, 6:01pm

YES YES YES!
This vehicle absolutely has a place ingame, especially given that with its upgraded armor in almost every area, it would easily give the German tree a 6.3 Panther. Its new turret armor is a massive upgrade, the and hull roof /roof armor will help it survive CAS much more easily. The rangefinder with also be quite helpful!

As for how this should be added to the game, I suggest pulling a CV90105 and completely replacing the Panther II we already have ingame (given its somewhat fictional) and replacing it with this vehicle. It’s the best way to go about it, especially as it removed a paper tank in the process (and I suggest refunding/removing Talismans, modifications purchases, and Expert/Ace crews applied to the current Panther II if they go about it like this).

Armen_Lozone · February 4, 2025, 6:05pm

the designs are real no doubt about it, however those plans did not get to be translated into real life as the war ended before any such refits could be attempted…
unless you have info ofcourse… in that case in all ears

Armen_Lozone · February 4, 2025, 6:10pm

this definitely should be the one and only way, vehicles are removed from WT. Either modified to be correct or fully refunded and removed

simsimkek · February 4, 2025, 6:14pm

The turret of the panther 2 was never made either i dont get your point? and the panther 88 turret would just be a slightly altered schmalturm (that did exist), so its not that crazy of an idea to suggest adding it

Armen_Lozone · February 4, 2025, 6:19pm

i personally would want that ofcourse, dont get me wrong. its just that, in the process of these suggestions, ive come to understand that there are certain standards that a suggestion has to meet to be acceptable. A Panther (1) turret incorporating an 88mm is by itself, not a vehicle obviously, and was never made. if it was made, yet never attached, yes i could make a suggestion for it, but as it stands currently, it was never made and was only a proposed refit.
The P II’s turret was never made, yes, but the hull was, and as a vehicle, it can still be suggested as the Schmale Blendenausführung was specific to the P II

while the 88mm schmalturm is not specific

although, just in case im assuming falsely here, may i ask @WreckingAres283 for a second opinion?