Ozelot and Gepard 1A2 should be the same BR as other vehicles with Fim-92s

[MotorolaCRO]

@Pangolin_Fan

How does that make your presence known? if it hits a building, then the smoke trail only gets a few meter before ending, unless you’re thinking of Sun City where there’s far away buildings.

Well you shouldn’t be in the city with high buildings as AA in the first place, as it blocks your vision and buildings are nothing but an obstacle. You’re also more likely to encounter enemies there as well.

If you position yourself away from high buildings, they can still eat your missile if plane is flying in a certain manner and smoke trail will be visible.

@Pangolin_Fan

There’s only a few maps that don’t have places for SPAA to hide. They’re the exception, not the rile.

They can easily get pushed as Ozelot and similar vehicles are defenseless and are basically free RP/SL boosters. Also, dedicated AA hiding spots actually make it easier for CAS to find them, as going even close to the front line is a suicide.

@Pangolin_Fan

Strafing autocannon tanks doesn’t always go too well, especially with .50cals.

Not all lights have autocannons.
Good thing most 8.0 - 9.0 CAS come with a 20mm, so choosing one of those isn’t a problem.

@Pangolin_Fan

When you sit in one spot whole game and no1 sees you before you kill em, that’s pretty riskless. As opposed to spawning a plane where everyone one the map knows you’re up there.

By shooting at anyone you’re exposing yourself to risk and pretty much everything can kill a Bradley.

[TestandRecognise]

Hello All, please remember to stay on topic, and to no put / insult other members.
Take personal quarrels to PMs.

Thank you.

[dotSHINI]

The joke of a thread is better closed either way since the guy is using factual wrong data and lying about the suggested brs for the 2 vehicles to make them “consistent to other stinger carriers”

Its a thread without any substance, no reasoning, no discussion.
Only his complains cause he doesnt like them.
A typical troll thread

[Pangolin_Fan]

@БЕИ

That is such a stupid comparison, as if Maus or Tiger posses a threat by knowing your plane is up there?? what are they gonna do except call you out?

How are you even contending the idea that not being seen is safer than being seen?

@WolfgangTheSecon

“If you don’t want to get bombed in your tank gamemode, just don’t spawn a tank."

You do realize I was responding to a goofy goober who was saying “juSt DOn"T pLAY pLAnes”, using his logic, right?

@MotorolaCRO

Well you shouldn’t be in the city with high buildings as AA in the first place, as it blocks your vision and buildings are nothing but an obstacle. You’re also more likely to encounter enemies there as well.

There’s some maps, particularly Cargo Port, Abandoned Factory, Aral Sea, and others were there’s tall structures that provide cover without blocking your view from shooting down planes, or making your vulnerable to tanks.

@MotorolaCRO

They can easily get pushed as Ozelot and similar vehicles are defenseless and are basically free RP/SL boosters. Also, dedicated AA hiding spots actually make it easier for CAS to find them, as going even close to the front line is a suicide.

I’ve never had issues hiding from CAS in my Imp.Chapparal, aside from some particularly bad maps.

@MotorolaCRO

Not all lights have autocannons.
Good thing most 8.0 - 9.0 CAS come with a 20mm, so choosing one of those isn’t a problem.

You’re still bound to come across Marders, Wiesels, Btr-80s, and other 20mm tanks if you get close enough to strafe. The only 8.0-9.0 option with CCRP only gets .50cals.

@MotorolaCRO

By shooting at anyone you’re exposing yourself to risk and pretty much everything can kill a Bradley.

If you kill them b4 they see you, then that isn’t an issue. Only exposing yourself for the sake of firing is better than everyone knowing where you are near 24/7

[DiamondCraftLP]

@Pangolin_Fan

The F-84F is the only option between 8.3 and 9.0. Even then, the 9.3 and 9.7 options aren’t exactly amazing against stingers either.

I still don’t know why you are so obsessed with the F-84F. It is 1.3 BR below the Ozelot and should not even see it, unless you uptier it very hard.
And of course, in an 1.3 uptier you will suffer.

The Ozelot and the Gepard1A2 are 9.7. So they are balanced against 9.7 aircraft. And most of them (all but 1) have flares and the means to defend themselves, especially the strike aircraft.

However, they are way underpowered against 9.7 helis. All with guided rockets that outrange the lock range of a Stinger.

@Pangolin_Fan

If you spend the entire game checking for Ozelots and not actually bombing tanks, then what’s the point of even spawning a plane?

You don’t spend the entire time actively looking for SPAA, they will make themselves shown. And if you are aware of your surroundings, it should not be hard to see a massive smoketrail coming your way and then react accordingly.
And if you don’t know how to aviod them, I would strongly recommend you looking it up. I strongly recommend Defyn’s IRCCM counter guide.

@Pangolin_Fan

A stinger is far faster than a heli ATGM, and can lock onto helis at over 1.5 miles.

It depends on the weather, the map, the time of day, the kind of heli and the will of Gaijin if and when a heli can be locked with a Stinger. Trust me, not consistent at all.

@Pangolin_Fan

XD Premium clown content.

Please elaborate. I am curious on how you came to that conclusion.

[dotSHINI]

@DiamondCraftLP

unless you uptier it very hard.

and literaly every user of F-84F has better CAS options at that point. so thats not an excuse either honestly

The guy just doesnt know how to built line ups apparently

[Pangolin_Fan]

@DiamondCraftLP

I still don’t know why you are so obsessed with the F-84F. It is 1.3 BR below the Ozelot and should not even see it, unless you uptier it very hard.

because the F-84F is the only option between 8.3 and 9.0. Even then, the 9.3 and 9.7 options aren’t exactly amazing against stingers either.

@DiamondCraftLP

The Ozelot and the Gepard1A2 are 9.7. So they are balanced against 9.7 aircraft.

And done poorly so. Gepard 1A2 against 8.7-9.7s is extremely one sided towards the Gepard.

@DiamondCraftLP

You don’t spend the entire time actively looking for SPAA, they will make themselves shown.

Only if they’re braindead, which tbf, most SPAA players are just braindead CAS haters.

@dotSHINI

and literaly every user of F-84F has better CAS options at that point. so thats not an excuse either honestly

Name another 8.3-9.0 American plane with CCRP or guided weapons and isn’t an event/premium (obviously bullpups don’t count)

[dotSHINI]

@Pangolin_Fan

because the F-84F is the only option between 8.3 and 9.0. Even then, the 9.3 and 9.7 options aren’t exactly amazing against stingers either.

@Pangolin_Fan

And done poorly so. Gepard 1A2 against 8.7-9.7s is extremely one sided towards the Gepard.

lets start with the fact that the sandal and type 93 exist at 9.3 lower then ozelot and gepard 1a2 with stingers and those ain the ones you are complaining about

@Pangolin_Fan

Name another 8.3-9.0 American plane with CCRP or guided weapons and isn’t an event/premium (obviously bullpups don’t count)

Well then good then that squadrons arent either and freerly available to everyone A-4E early and F-117 comes even with lgbs omg at 8.7 !!!

Besides that of course you are always gonna be at a massive disadvantage at full uptiers duhhhh. There is way worse nations with cas at that point.
A-4B and FJ-4B are completly valid options as well, they dont get ccrp, but you shouldnt realy rely on CCRP to begin with

@Pangolin_Fan

8.7-9.7s is extremely one sided towards the Gepard.

Harriers come with a lot of countermeasures and can do incredible manovers as well to avoid stingers

Generaly spaas and the same are balanced to the aircraft etc on the same br as themself, where they work perfectly fine. The problem is you taking aircraft that arent valid into higher brs that arent meaned to be played there

[DiamondCraftLP]

@Pangolin_Fan

because the F-84F is the only option between 8.3 and 9.0.

@Pangolin_Fan

8.3-9.0 American plane with CCRP or guided weapons

The F9Fs at 8.0 with 2 1000lb or 6 500 lb bombs
The Canberras (B-57) at 8.3, even with a bombsight
The A-4B at 8.7 with 3 bullpubs
The A-4E at 9.3 with 2 walleyes or 5 bullpubs or 5 1000lb bombs or 14 Mk 82 and CCRP
The F-100D at 9.3 with 2 bullpubs or 4 1000lb bombs or 8 750lb bombs or 10 Mk82 and CCRP
The AV-8C at 9.7 with CCIP and CCRP and flares (this is the BR of the Ozelot mind you)

You don’t lack options, you lack vision. If your only criteria is some sort of ballistic computer, of course you will be disappointed. Using CCRP is not very useful in Ground anyways, becasue w/o targeting pod your drop point will be way off. (You also can’t adjust, the target coulde move etc. etc.)

The F-84F is also one of the very few aircraft with a ballistic computer at 8.3 or even 8.7. Be happy about that. Ballistic computers are only appearing from 9.0 onward on other aircraft.

If you want to have a ballistic computer or guided weapons, you would have to play a much higher BR vehicle. The first Mavericks come in at 9.7, followed by other guided munition as the BR increases.

@Pangolin_Fan

8.7-9.7s is extremely one sided towards the Gepard

As I said, all but a few 9.7 aircraft (BR of the Gepard and Ozelot) have flares to defend themselves. Even some lower vehicles have flares to defend themselves (A-4E). You just have to know how.

And comparing vehicles under the BR is kinda irrelevant and not usefull at all. The Gepard, and the Ozelot, are clearly outmatched against 10.0, 10.3, hell even 11.0 CAS and Helicopters. So should these aircraft go up even further? Just because the Ozelot is outclassed in an 1.3 uptier?

HATE

@Pangolin_Fan

CAS hater

Oh yes, I hate CAS with a passion. I absolutely love shooting down braindead CAS, flying straight and presenting themselves on a silver platter. Bummer that the rewards suck, but at least I protect my team. And I don’t limit myself to this BR.

[dotSHINI]

@DiamondCraftLP

The F9Fs at 8.0 with 2 1000lb or 6 500 lb bombs
The Canberras (B-57) at 8.3, even with a bombsight
The A-4B at 8.7 with 3 bullpubs
The A-4E at 9.3 with 2 walleyes or 5 bullpubs or 5 1000lb bombs or 14 Mk 82 and CCRP

he will make excuses those dount count because they are either

1. dont have CCRP, which by far isnt a required and honestly just a skill isssue on his part

@Pangolin_Fan

(obviously bullpups don’t count)

cause again a skill issue and he sucks at using them and cant allow that can we
and 3. conveniently he said 9.0 not even a whole br step he named so the 9.3 vehicles he named of course dont count

[MotorolaCRO]

@Pangolin_Fan

There’s some maps, particularly Cargo Port, Abandoned Factory, Aral Sea, and others were there’s tall structures that provide cover without blocking your view from shooting down planes, or making your vulnerable to tanks.

Great, so M247 can do it’s job on close range enemies.

@Pangolin_Fan

I’ve never had issues hiding from CAS in my Imp.Chapparal, aside from some particularly bad maps.

Hiding from decent CAS and ground units is the problem.

@Pangolin_Fan

You’re still bound to come across Marders, Wiesels, Btr-80s, and other 20mm tanks if you get close enough to strafe. The only 8.0-9.0 option with CCRP only gets .50cals.

CCRP isn’t needed to toss a bomb.

@Pangolin_Fan

If you kill them b4 they see you, then that isn’t an issue. Only exposing yourself for the sake of firing is better than everyone knowing where you are near 24/7

You’re exposing yourself by doing that, as you (hopefully) don’t have wallhacks and can’t really see what’s coming next.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@DiamondCraftLP

The F9Fs at 8.0 with 2 1000lb or 6 500 lb bombs

No ballistics computer (and slow af)

@DiamondCraftLP

The A-4B at 8.7

No ballistics computer

@DiamondCraftLP

The A-4E at 9.3 with 2 walleyes or 5 bullpubs or 5 1000lb bombs or 14 Mk 82 and CCRP
The F-100D at 9.3 with 2 bullpubs or 4 1000lb bombs or 8 750lb bombs or 10 Mk82 and CCRP
The AV-8C at 9.7 with CCIP and CCRP and flares (this is the BR of the Ozelot mind you)

All of these are above 9.0

@DiamondCraftLP

You don’t lack options

America does. The F-84F is the only option that meets the requirements, whilst nations like France or Germany have the F-84F, in addition to planes like the Alpha Jet.

@DiamondCraftLP

The F-84F is also one of the very few aircraft with a ballistic computer at 8.3 or even 8.7. Be happy about that.

That would be impressive if it wasn’t given to 5 of 10 nations.

@DiamondCraftLP

The first Mavericks come in at 9.7

cool thumbs up

@DiamondCraftLP

As I said, all but a few 9.7 aircraft (BR of the Gepard and Ozelot) have flares to defend themselves.

F-84F, or the A-4B you listed don’t have flares, nor does F-100D. Doesn’t matter much though, flares don’t detract stingers even when your engine is off and you’ve been gliding for the past 15 seconds.

@DiamondCraftLP

And comparing vehicles under the BR is kinda irrelevant and not usefull at all. The Gepard, and the Ozelot, are clearly outmatched against 10.0, 10.3, hell even 11.0 CAS and Helicopters.

I do not care about helicopters, that’s a whole other can of beans.

@DiamondCraftLP

So should these aircraft go up even further?

Yes, 10.3+ aircraft should move up to replace 11.0-12.0 cas, although we would need to remove Pantsir first for that to happen.

@dotSHINI

conveniently he said 9.0 not even a whole br step he named so the 9.3 vehicles he named of course dont count

So, have you ever considered the possibility that maybe, JUST MAYBE, the whole point of this post is the 8.7-9.0 vehicles that have to fight stingers, and not the 9.3/7 vehicles?

@MotorolaCRO

Hiding from decent CAS and ground units is the problem.

It’s not difficult on most maps, and they few it is on are already garbage maps that everyone hates anyways.

@MotorolaCRO

CCRP isn’t needed to toss a bomb.

You need some for of ballistic computer, unless you’re a nolife who has spend 2k hours alone practicing bomb tosses (99.99% of players aren’t)

@MotorolaCRO

You’re exposing yourself by doing that, as you (hopefully) don’t have wallhacks and can’t really see what’s coming next.

Warthunder has wallhacks built in, called 3rd person camera, binoculars, and scout UAV. All of which allow you to view the enemy without exposing yourself.

In a plane, however, you must expose yourself, and get within firing range aswell, to view the enemy.

[dotSHINI]

@Pangolin_Fan

All of these are above 9.0

@Pangolin_Fan

So, have you ever considered the possibility that maybe, JUST MAYBE, the whole point of this post is the 8.7-9.0 vehicles that have to fight stingers, and not the 9.3/7 vehicles?

MotorolaCRO:

and once again ignoring stuff that conveniently beats all your requirements and shows you are wrong

@dotSHINI

@Pangolin_Fan

Name another 8.3-9.0 American plane with CCRP or guided weapons and isn’t an event/premium (obviously bullpups don’t count)

Well then good then that squadrons arent either and freerly available to everyone A-4E early and F-117 comes even with lgbs omg at 8.7 !!!

Besides that of course you are always gonna be at a massive disadvantage at full uptiers duhhhh. There is way worse nations with cas at that point.
A-4B and FJ-4B are completly valid options as well, they dont get ccrp, but you shouldnt realy rely on CCRP to begin with

[Pangolin_Fan]

@dotSHINI

and once again ignoring stuff that conveniently beats all your requirements and shows you are wrong

and once again ignoring the face that this post isn’t about 9.3 or 9.7 planes.

@dotSHINI

Well then good then that squadrons arent either and freerly available to everyone A-4E early and F-117 comes even with lgbs omg at 8.7 !!!

A-4E and F-117 are both above 9.0 (and F-117 is overtiered as it is)

@dotSHINI

A-4B and FJ-4B are completly valid options as well, they dont get ccrp, but you shouldnt realy rely on CCRP to begin with

No, they’re not. Any BR where you face radar SPAA, and especially SAMs, you need ballistics computers (or guided weapons of your own) to level the playing field.

[dotSHINI]

@Pangolin_Fan

A-4E and F-117 are both above 9.0 (and F-117 is overtiered as it is)

the weird ground/air split in br, still not acustomed to that when i just check brs in tech tree.

Point still stands with the CCRP etc, its a skill issue on your part
and conveniently leaving out 9.3s besides that what i said

@dotSHINI

Generaly spaas and the same are balanced to the aircraft etc on the same br as themself, where they work perfectly fine. The problem is you taking aircraft that arent valid into higher brs that arent meaned to be played there

maybe the real solution to your dilema and your screwed up stuff is just suggesting an aircraft for implementation that fulfiles your requirements and handhelds your handicaps
doesnt US have any trainers similar to alpha jet etc?

[Pangolin_Fan]

@dotSHINI

and conveniently leaving out 9.3s besides that what i said

And you conveniently leave out the fact that 9.3s can’t be used in 8.7-9.0 lineups.

@dotSHINI

maybe the real solution to your dilema and your screwed up stuff is just suggesting an aircraft for implementation

We could also just move stingers up.

@dotSHINI

doesnt US have any trainers similar to alpha jet etc?

No idea about trainers, but there is a prototype A-10 armed with an M61 Vulcan. If Gajin adds it without guided ordinance, then it could be a decent 8.7.

[MotorolaCRO]

@Pangolin_Fan

You need some for of ballistic computer, unless you’re a nolife who has spend 2k hours alone practicing bomb tosses (99.99% of players aren’t)

You play more than enough to be able to learn that.

@Pangolin_Fan

Warthunder has wallhacks built in, called 3rd person camera, binoculars, and scout UAV. All of which allow you to view the enemy without exposing yourself.

But you’re exposing yourself while shooting at someone.

@Pangolin_Fan

In a plane, however, you must expose yourself, and get within firing range aswell, to view the enemy.

In aircraft you can attack the enemy without him even being able to fight back.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@MotorolaCRO

You play more than enough to be able to learn that.

Show me a clip of you bomb tossing a Gepard who’s firing at you without ballistics computers, and without dying.

@MotorolaCRO

But you’re exposing yourself while shooting at someone.

Doesn’t matter if they’re dead. It’s still many times safer than being exposed with or without attacking som1.

@MotorolaCRO

In aircraft you can attack the enemy without him even being able to fight back.

In a tank you can do the same. The difference is it’s easier for SPAA to attack a plane, than for a tank to fight back against another tank he doesn’t see.

[dotSHINI]

@Pangolin_Fan

And you conveniently leave out the fact that 9.3s can’t be used in 8.7-9.0 lineups.

and the stinger carriers those arent 8.7-9.0 for a reason

@Pangolin_Fan

We could also just move stingers up.

nup because the stingers are balanced for the 9.3-10.0 aircraft where u see the spaas palced.
if you move the spaas up, all those aircraft would be needed to be moved up as well

[Pangolin_Fan]

@dotSHINI

and the stinger carriers those arent 8.7-9.0 for a reason

Yes, and they shouldn’t be below 10.0 for the same reason.

@dotSHINI

nup because the stingers are balanced for the 9.3-10.0 aircraft where u see the spaas palced.
if you move the spaas up, all those aircraft would be needed to be moved up as well

They’re not balanced at 9.7, and yes 10.0+ aircraft should be moved up