Outlining the needs of the French ground tree: "Sons of Atilla" edition

Hello everyone, I’ve been looking to make this post for a while, and with the release of the new patch, I figured it was finally a good time for it.

In this post I intend to go over the current flaws in the French ground tree and suggest vehicles or other changes that might be able to resolve these issues. To most of you I assume that what I’m gonna say is gonna be quite logical and known knowledge. However, Gaijin appears to have no idea about the issues or a plan to resolve them. Hence why I thought a public post could help to increase visibility.
I hope to make a similar post after every patch release to keep pointing out the present issues and offer solutions for them.
If this post gathers some traction, then I’d be more than happy to make a topic for the issues in the air tree as well.

Now, let’s get into it:

Issue 1: The SPAA gap between 4.3 and 8.3

This one is currently my biggest annoyance in the French ground tree. It’s also a long standing issue that has been mentioned many times and, despite plentiful options to resolve the issue, remains present. The AMX-13 DCA 40 is the de-facto SPAA that players have to use in their lineups until 8.3. While the vehicle is an acceptable SPAA at its own br, and remains a fun vehicle if played as IFV for a few more levels, it quickly becomes useless as SPAA.
The lack of SPAA in this gap is especially disappointing since there is a lot of otherwise good lineups present within it. Lineups at 5.3 can still do decently well with the DCA 40, but those at 6.7, 7.3, 7.7 and 8.0 have to do with a horribly outclassed SPAA, or simply do without one.

Possible solutions to the problem:
This particular gap has a lot of possible options to fix it, for clarity and to make it easy for Gaijin, I’ll only show the ones that already have parts modeled.

  • AML S530

    A twin 20mm SPAA based on the AML chassis that we already have in-game from the AML-90. The vehicle has no radar and is armed with 2x GIAT industries M621 20mm autocannons with a rate-of-fire of 740 rounds/minute/barrel.

  • AMX-13 S533

    Another twin 20mm SPAA. This time based on the AMX-13 chassis that we all know and love. The turret is slightly upgraded from the S530 featured on the previous vehicle and replaces the M621 with the Hispano Suiza HS820 cannons.

  • AMX-13 DCA (prototype)
    The prototype of the AMX-13 DCA. This turret is the direct predecessor to the one we see on the AMX-30 DCA. This turret was in fact first mounted onto AMX-13s as the AMX-13 DCA. The production version also had the radar equipment that we are familiar with, but this was lacking from the prototype, making it a very good options for an SPAA below 8.3. The chassis is already in-game and the turret model almost is. Should be a very easy addition for Gaijin

  • AML TA20

    Another SPAA based on the AML chassis. This time featuring a different, smaller twin 20mm turret. This turret optionally featured a radar, but in the case of this prototype, didn’t. The vehicle did come equipped with an optical tracker.

Issue 2: The absence of stabilized wheeled tank-destroyers

Stabilized wheeled vehicles are probably some of the most fun and useful vehicles in the top-tier meta right now. Despite this, France currently has one 0 stabilized wheeled tank-destroyers in its tree. Despite this absence, France has no lack of options when it comes to this vehicle class. It would massively benefit the high-rank lineups if there were light vehicles to go along with the MBTs.

  • Sagaie 2

    The Sagaie 2 was a further development of the Sagaie wheeled tank-destroyer. It featured a more powerful engine, but also the TTB190 turret which offered full weapon stabilization.

  • AMX-10RC (TML Late)

    A prototype development of the AMX-10RC. This featured a late model TML turret which came equipped with a stabilizer. This one would be fairly easy for gaijin to implement as they can simply re-use the AMX-10RC hull.

  • VEXTRA 105

    Possibly the most well-known and wanted option for this specific issue. The VEXTRA was a wheeled tank-destroyer armed with a fully stabilized 105mm cannon. This would be a perfect counterpart to the likes of the Type 16 and Centauro.


    A further development of the VEXTRA vehicle, this one fitted with a 120mm cannon. The turret was known as the FER (Faible Effort de Recul) and was eventually fitted with its full fire-control-system before the project was cancelled.

  • EBRC Jaguar

    This one was always gonna be here, the EBRC Jaguar is France’s latest scout vehicle. While not technically a wheeled tank-destroyer, it’s also not an IFV. The Jaguar is intended to replace the ERC 90 and AMX 10RC, so I figured it fits best in this list. The vehicle is equipped with a 40mm autocannon and a pair of launchers for the FnF Akeron missile.

Issue 3: The absence of IFVs

IFVs are another key aspect to higher rank gameplay, and one that’s almost entirely missing from the French tree. At least this time we can say that there’s a single one, but unfortunately it’s a premium. Despite promises we’d get a researchable counterpart, we’ve not seen that materialize as of right now.
France has mostly focused on producing wheeled IFVs, but some tracked options are also available.

  • AMX 10M HOT

    Now that we have the AMX 10M ACRA in-game, this vehicle became more relevant. It is essentially the AMX-10 hull with the 20mm cannon, but instead of having a hull-mounted canon, it has the missile launchers on the side of the turret, making it a vastly more flexible platform, and an actual IFV.

  • AMX 10 TTB140

    Another IFV based on the AMX 10 chassis, this time mounting the TTB140 turret. This turret features a powerful 40mm autocannon. This is essentially a proper IFV that will function like the AMX 13 DCA 40.

  • VBCI 2 T40

    A VBCI 2 variant featuring the 2-man T40 turret. Main armament consists of a 40mm autocannon that fires cased telescoped munitions. The same gun is also present on the EBRC Jaguar

  • VBCI

    The original VBCI, mass produced and used by the French army. The standard version has a DRAGAR turret that comes equipped with a 25mm autocannon. The version in this image is equipped with the EIREL missile jamming system that we know from the AMX-30B2 BRENUS.

  • AMX VCI T.20-13

    An early IFV based on the AMX VCI chassis. This is in its turn an IFV based on the AMX-13 chassis. This vehicle is equipped with the Toucan turret which has a 20mm autocannon as main armament. Not something for the higher ranks, but could be useful in the mid ranks.

  • AMX 10P Dragar

    The standard AMX 10 IFV but with a Dragar turret. Basically a less mobile, but smaller version of the VBCI. Could be a fun vehicle to reinforce to mid ranks. Just like every other AMX 10 variant, it is amphibious.

  • AML Eclairage

    Once again the chassis of the AML armoured car, but this time fitted with a multipurpose turret that came equipped with a 20mm autocannon and a MILAN missile launcher on top of that.

  • There is many more options available, but I cannot list them all, be sure to go have a look at the suggestions pages if you want to see more.


I think these 3 are currently the most pressing issues in the French ground tree and would love to see Gaijin put in some effort to resolve them. Plenty of options are available for every issue as I could only list a limited amount of vehicles in this topic before it would become absurdly long. If there’s other issues that you guys think are more pressing, please do discuss them in the comments, if the issue is agreed upon, I’ll try to add it to the main post for as long as I can.
Similarly, if you disagree with the vehicles I’ve suggested here, please give your own counter suggestions, I can always replace the vehicles that I’ve put in the post.

It is sad that we have to point out where the issues are in the hopes of seeing them resolved, but doing nothing and continuing to be disappointed by the additions we get is also not getting us anywhere. At least like this I can hope that the issues become more apparent and public and will receive more attention towards the future.


thank you for saying what we want, i really want some balance and more variety on teh france ground tree, rlly hope they add belgium or smth as a branch it would be nice


Not only French tree.

If you mean that other trees have needs too, then yes I agree.
However, this topic specifically outlines those of the French tree. If you wish to discuss the others I can only advise you to make a topic to outline those needs.


Very nice post, this highlights the shortcomings of the French tree.

Unfortunately, as you said, these problems have existed for a long time, Gaijin is surely aware of them but prefers to add new Russian or US vehicles rather than take care of France.

When you think about it, France is missing so many elements that adding them could be a major update.

The problem is that Gaijin doesn’t consider France to be a sufficient slot machine and therefore pays it very little attention.


While it is indeed seemingly not a big money maker for Gaijin right now, I do believe that some key additions can make a huge difference when it comes to that.
The shortcomings are obviously well known to us, but some moderators have said that the more something is discussed, the more likely it is for Gaijin to look into it.
Thus we probably have to bring it up as often as we can and discuss it regularly, so that Gaijin realizes there’s a pressing issue.

The AMX-10RCR T40 would also be a nice addition.
In-fact you have a post for it already :)


Yes, I agree, but only if the moderators pass on the information, which is not certain.

That’s the AMX 10 M HOT, the AMX 10 HOT is related but a different vehicle

Single barreled SPAA are pretty bad, might be a good idea to avoid those
the AMX 12 with quand MG 151 would be at a similar BR but much better.
Or the GMC 6x6 with the quad Flak38. More guns is always better for SPAA.

It would be the worst given most have ATGMs and those who don’t usually have big enough guns to compensate (25mm+). It would be like a Wiesel but the size of an AMX 30. Not even sure it is remotely viable for the state of the game.


Thanks, really appreciate the feedback!

The AMX VCI T.20-13 isn’t in there as a SPAA btw, it’s there as an IFV. Indeed as an SPAA it would be quite mediocre with its mechanical single gunned turret.

Any suggestions what to replace the AMX 10P with in the IFV section perhaps?

You to l’AMX 10P 25

AMX 10 P 25 ( Maquette) :Maquetland.com:: Le monde de la maquette.

“Cet engin fut construit en adaptant la tourelle GIAT Dragar Giat armée d’un canon de 25mm sur le châssis du VCI AMX 10P
Il fut proposé à l exportation sans succès
Voici une photographie trouvée sur Internet cet engin est appelé sur internet AMX 10 D 25 alors que le CDEB l appelle AMX10P 25
Equipage 1+10
longueur 5.98 m
Largeur 2.83 m
Hauteur 2.8 m
HS 115 de 260 CV
Vitesse 65 kms/H amphibie 10 km/h
Autonomie 600kms
Tourelle monoplace Dragar
Canon de 25 mm M 811

It’s an export vehicle.

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does indeed look like a better alternative, got a picture of the thing IRL too:

Another alternative would be the Mars 15 T.25, basically the chassis of the Mars 15 with the Dragar turret mounted on top of it. So basically same general armament and useability but slightly different looks.


Same 20mm but you get a decent top mounted MILAN and speed and a much smaller size (but less armour). A good ratty vehicle


Looks perfect indeed! Chassis already there so a low effort add for Gaijin as well.
I’ve added in the list of possible IFVs (even though it arguably isn’t really an IFV I guess)

If it’s for France, it’s a real effort for Gaijin. 🤣🤣

But yes, it would be a good addition. On the other hand, I wonder if there isn’t a version without MILAN, which would put it at a much lower BR. Because France needs flak from BR 1.3 to 7.7, and knowing Gaijin and their excessive and dubious use of “c’est trop OP” they could refuse it without even making the effort to look further.

Personally, if there were a version without MILAN, I’d see it as BR 7.0 or earlier.

Well you could remove the Milan
Or have a whole other turret (just single 20mm, i can think of 4 of them rn, surely more i can’t remember them all)

Though I would prefer the GMC with 4 Flak38 as it would be a better SPAA (more dakka is never bad)

Here is another potential vehicle, the AML-60/20, we can also have the regular AML-60 as well mostly for variety sakes



Personally, if we could stay with French equipment proposals, I’d like it just as much. The Flak38 would certainly add equipment, but only if the French didn’t have similar equipment at the same BR.

I love its look, but I’d see it more as one of the 1st IFVs in the technology branch.

Fair enough

Though i suggest both AML-60’s partially due to variety in terms of weapon type but also the AML-60 without the 20mm can be added to fill up the gap between the EBR 1951 & the AMX-13

If anybody is wondering the 60mm cannon that the AML-60 uses can use HEAT & APFSDS rounds with a total max pen of 200mm and 135mm (point blank) respectively according to the suggestion of the AML-60 on the old forum

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