Uhhh? Eurofighter has been multi-role since Tranche 2. Later developments expand on its multi-role capabilites more.
Did i mention India ?
Yanno, if we think like this… why was Nexter even allowed to develop the cannon for MGCS instead of being flat out denied the opportunity?
EADS/DASA/Airbus obviously has the necessary know-how & experience, considering they’ve been put in charge of this development aspect. It’s almost as if, shocking I know, the project has a primary developer, and a secondary developer for technologies (!!!), where both share their research, evaluate it and mature it together. In this case Airbus was judged to be ahead, same with the VCE for the NGF… but Dassault is still the primary developer. Why is it such a foreign concept?
If only your battles in last week wasn’t hidden. ;)
KNDS was supposed to develop the tank entirely. That was the original deal. KMW was in charge of the hull, Nexter the turret. Then Rheinmetall went in uninvited (which i can understand from their POV, it’s fair game after all)
IMO france should also get out of MGCS and sort of focus on light tanks and artillery. That being said, ASCALON has some new tech involved (like telescoped ammunition). While Rh130 is an upscaled Rh120. It’s more reliable and proven, but maybe not as future proof.
In both programs, both countries should go their own way, there’s simply too much redundancy.
what does VCE stand for ?
Rheinmetall was invited by KMW as a counterweight for France attempting to pull Italy into the project… overall both sides were attempting to gain more levarage, Germany won.
Rheinmetall was also on its way to straight up buying KNDS, however France threatened to cancel the project if that happened :^)
That being said, ASCALON has some new tech involved (like telescoped ammunition). While Rh130 is an upscaled Rh120. It’s more reliable and proven, but maybe not as future proof.
Telescoped munitions aren’t new technology by any means (remember HSTV-L?). FYI, Rh 130 has already reached energy levels beyond ASCALON (14MJ on target vs 8MJ on target…, in fact Rh 120L/55A1 w/DM83 will have a much larger output as far as we’re concerned, scratch that, DM63 has a larget on target output) and has a lot more of room left for growth. Like, not trying to sound condenscending here or anything, but ASCALON’s literaly only selling point is… the fact it weights about as much as Rh 130mm, and that’s it.
what does VCE stand for ?
Variable Cycle Engine.
Your welcome to go find me if you want. I play most days, as we all do :)
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I’m still proud of my two engagements with you.
One was your enemy, and I was very much addicted to the Sea Vixen at that time.
And then our twin F3 match tho I still haven’t spaded that.
I do enjoy the F.3 and Italian ADV a lot. Great aircraft.
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Which is even funnier when you consider france was generous enough to let germany invite spain to the FCAS.
France has that kind of cool mechanism where it can block a defence company from being bought by an other state if it doesn’t feel like it.
And that the ammo takes up less space. Also who said Ascalon had no room for growth ?
Anyhow, i hope both projects are stopped, it got too toxic over time.
yeah no idea why they even attempted it once again, when it we already had the results of so many other projects, french doctrine and style just is to eccentric in some cases
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To be perfectly honest, seeing as France is always trying to “bring more to Europe” in terms of military co-operation, the total reluctance to merge your defence industries into one is rather counter-productive…
I mean, it worked out fine with Airbus that was a merger of DASA and Aérospatiale-Matra, why wouldn’t it work here?
And that the ammo takes up less space. Also who said Ascalon had no room for growth ?
Sure. Of course ASCALON has room for growth, but it’s strating out much weaker (~7MJ on target at combat distance is less than Rh L/55A1 mod which can output ~10MJ+ on target).
Anyhow, i hope both projects are stopped, it got too toxic over time.
You’re very much out of lack, FCAS/NGF are going strong :)))
Yeah… Tell that to Germany with their new F-35…
F-35 had to be purchased as a replacement for Tornado, and it had to be an aircraft that was cleared to carry American nuclear bombs in order to meet the nuclear sharing requirements.
What about French one? It’s not as if Germany is next-door neighbor to NATO’s second-largest nuclear power.
I wonder if it’s been discussed since all this time that this contract should be cut to make it more European. Even if I can understand some reluctance from here haha.
because the f35 doubles with its stealth technology and resolves as a result other holes in germany currently as well
Always bringing up the F-35, but…
No, because the F-35 is no alternative to the FCAS. The FCAS is meant to be a sixth generation fighter jet, the F-35 is a fifth generation one. The F-35 is replacing the Tornado, Germany already has committed to further developing its Eurofighter to bridge the gap to FCAS. The only alternative to FCAS is joining the Tempest project, which is something that Italy proposed should Germany do, if troubles with France continue.
This is however a view on the matter that is nearly exclusive to the French. Germans are very happy about the decision of the government to not reduce its military purchases solely to a tool to appease France, but rather focusing on the capabilities of the German Army (and EU/NATO) to defend itself against attacks. When French sources claim that these choices are bad for “Europe”, they usually mean “the French defense industry”.
There are no equally capable European alternatives to the purchase of the F-35. They don’t exist. So the only option to appease France would be to sacrifice capabilities (by delaying procurements by a decade or more).
When purchasing the C-130J for the Franco-German transport squadron, there were no issues with “European interests”, because France didn’t want to sacrifice capabilities until an European alternative
would have been developed.
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Don’t forget the angle that France has it’s own nukes. If Germany had it’s own nukes, Germany wouldn’t have to struggle with the whole nuclear sharing issue. Just how France doesn’t have to worry.
On that one i agree
MBDA is still very nation-segmented, with each entity doing its own thing sometimes (CAMM, Mica VL being a prime example of internal competition), as for Airbus it is more civilian oriented.
An entire fighter isn’t exactly the same. It’s like asking to share the construction of our aircraft carriers or SSBNs in one merger company, it just doesn’t make sense.
if you think france isn’t bringing much to the project, be it stealth, engine or whatever, i fail to understand how you can see it as good news