uh huh. i played one match today with the harrier and managed to have 3 of those missiles fired at me in rear aspect and flared all of them with ease in the harrier
i did, about 1.5km from a mig21MF, took over 100BOL to ensure it missed me WITH defensive maneuvers !
Which Harrier?
What missiles? (if it’s an R-60 at anything other than about 1km, then its a skill issue even in the F-5)
Also, being at a high speed with a lower throttle setting mitigates a lot of the issues because the engine produces less thrust at higher air speeds and can maintain said higher speed at 60% throttle quite readily.
Tbf it’s an R-60. It would rather track a burnt cigarette on the ground than literal afterburners infront of it
Good to hear there’s no bugs, but sad to hear it’s still so hot intentionally.
Yeah…
On paper, the current system works fine for 99% of cases. Its a fairly good way to model IR signatures without having to model exhausts (which they really really need to do) as the IR signatures then change based upon throttle settings.
but its that 1% that gets either screwed or lucks out.
Gunjob asked the devs and this was his explanation of the response, but would love a far more detailed explanation of how the system works and all the variables at some point. There are some edge cases where it doesnt quite make sense like the F-14s.
The very low thrust aircraft like the F-5s reap the benefits and its why a Su-27’s IRST can maintain lock on a F-117 for longer than it can maintain a lock on a Afterburning F-5. (the footage of this)
But the other end of the spectrum is aircraft like the Harriers which have high thrust, and whats worse, they gain more thrust at lower air speed, like for example, when in a dogfight. (as an honourable mention here, T.10, Gr7 and FA2 are all rather dependent on BOL as well, which really really doesnt help, especially the Gr7 and FA2 which mostly face IRCCM stuff)
Me and Matrix just did some tests. Jaguar GR1A on full reheat comfortably defeated a rear-aspect Aim-9L from 3km with 1 flare drop (which IRL docs for the Jag say should be impossible to do with even large calibre flares) and the exact same results for a Buc S2 at max thrust.
When the roles were reversed. The SHar (which drops 2 flares at a time) was just about able to defeat an Aim-9L when at max speed, but when down around 400-450kts which is fairly typical speed for it in a dogfight. 4 flares weren’t enough, even turning 90° and dropping multiple flares was barely enough.
How the devs model IR signatures definetly needs an overhaul in the future. But for now, aircraft like the Harrier could do with the F-117’s code (which iirc, is a 0.5x multiplier applied to its thrust in the IR code or something) could be used on other aircraft to help normalise the signature. I even wonder if it could be used in reverse to increase the IR signature for aircraft like the F-5s
7 Likes
1 thing that also benefits from low thrust is helicopters
Yeah, though on the Helis, they have now got directional exhausts, which definetly contributes to the IR signature problem. They have directional exhausts but still use the thrust for IR signature ( I assume), which is a messy combo I think., But spells hope for the future for jets because if directional exhaust added to jets, would be very very interesting. Especially in something like the Harrier that can VIFF.
TF30 is a turbofan but it’s hot as hell ingame
Thrust = heat in game not heat = heat
AI jets seem to benefit from it as well. They’re a pain to lock with all all aspect unless it’s a rear aspect shot.
They don’t even have that much thrust but still insanely hot
Engine temperature has little or nothing to do with thrust - kerosene burns the same sort of temperatures in all sized engines.
What matters is mixing the hot air from combustion with cold air - firstly with bypass air if in a bypass engine, and then with atmospheric air.
1 Like
Talking about game. I believe what your saying but F-14A and F-111, I have noticed have little success flaring
Big targets, and afterburners - afterburners are a whole new ballgame, putting a massive heat flare well behind the aircraft that cannot be hidden!
2 Likes
Even without burner on I find TF30 jets to be easy to take out, and fairly difficult to flare in
The Harriers are about as hot as a fully afterburning typhoon except its all the time.
Because theyre weird as hell.
exactly and the op used it to support their argument which if true would be ridiculous so…
It hits the Harrier the same as the 9L I am still getting footage in real battles