Revamped and updated my post.
Little introduction
Italy for some reason in war-thunder has massive gaps between SPAA’s, which is not only annoying but also quite sad because there are many vehicles that can be added to fill in those gaps in the line, as you’ll come to find out in this post. Many of the posts here have actually already been made into suggestions and have some have also been passed to the developers, which is good as it means Gaijin likely are already aware of the existence of some of the vehicles being proposed. Making the actual list didn’t take too much time, as I’ve already done the research for the vehicles time ago. The new and improved SPAA line for Italy features many new vehicles. Il be breaking down each section and giving you some info on the vehicle. Please do write down in the comments bellow what you think of this, thanks for taking the time to read it and have a great day/night.
Where is the R3 T20 gone?
So something that i always wondered is why the R3 is classed as an SPAA, look i get it it can be used as an SPAA and to a certain extent i can understand the thought process behind it, however in the Italian tree the R3 is quite a controversial vehicle. Although personally i never saw a problem with it, i decided to do a compromise in which the R3 will no longer be in the SPAA line, but moved into a seperate line for it. Ideally it should be placed in a theoretical 5th line around the BR of 6.0-7.0 with major changes. At that BR the R3 T20 will receive a new set of ammunition in the form of APDS rounds. The reasoning for this is due to other similar vehicles having access to such rounds, the R3 can become more of what players actually use it for, a fast IFV/light tank destroyer. Alongside the new rounds it will also get the ability to scout enemy players (considering its a reconnaissance vehicle) just like the R3 T106 in the tech tree can. Lastly but not least, historically the R3 could also (optionally) have access to NVD and IR sights so depending at what BR Gaijin decide to add it into it could also very well have access to those. In terms of the stab, although sources (although very limited ones) do claim that the R3 had access to the stab, they fail to mention at what speed it was rated for. If Gaijin wishes to they could revert their old change back to what the R3 stab used to be, but understandably its not really super needed in comparision with the other proposed changed i previously listed. Seeing the R3 slowly getting uptiered every couple updates is boring when a more concrete solution is availible. With this change you will please the Italian community as the R3 will be more historically accurate and will be able to perform better at a higher BR anyway because of the abundance of light vehicles with no armor. Now lets get into my proposed line.
New and Improved SPAA line (Rank 1-2)
Spoiler
[details=“Fiat-Terni (Tripoli) su SPA38R (Premium/Event)
I decided to add this vehicle to the tree mainly due to Italy currently not having access to a SPAA at the BR of 1.0, but i did not feel it is needed in the main SPAA line as the AS 42 is more than good as a starter SPAA for Italy. This vehicle could easily be a low tier event vehicle or cheap premium that new players of the Italian tech tree can use, to help them get a start to the tree. Its armament is quite lackluster, only having access to a 12.7mm Breda-SAFAT but the elevation angles are satisfactory for the BR of 1.0. Overall its not a needed addition but it can help by bolstering low-tier lineups and giving a boost to any newcomers playing the Italian tech tree.
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Alfa Romeo 430 (Cannone-Mitragliera da 20/77 (Scotti)) (Tech Tree)
I decided to add this vehicle after the AS 42 as due to the weapon it has access to, it’s the same exact 20mm cannon present on the M42 Controaero, but instead of 4 being present, the player only has access to one. This would be quite a nimble vehicle, with a decent weapon that if Gaijin really wanted to, could also have access to some armor piercing rounds like the M42 already does. Adding this to the game wont be too hard and the weapon is already present on another vehicle, making quite easy to re-use assets, making the process quicker. It also wouldn’t be too powerful as it completely lacks any sort of protection, this vehicle would be around the 2.3 BR.
Semicingolato Quadrinata (Premium/Event)
Italy used various American Half-Tracks post war, mainly with the Maxon mount, although i list this as a premium it could easily also be put as an event. Ican see why that would upset many as this vehicle isn’t exactly very interesting. These Half-Tracks would not have anything unique to them gameplay wise, but would heavily bolster the SPAA’s Italy has access to. If added as a premium or event it could be used as a support vehicle for new players or old players of the Italian tree. Considering all this the obvious BR would be of 2.3.
New and Improved SPAA line (Rank 3-5)
Spoiler
M113 HS-820 (Tech tree)
Prototype M113 with a singular 20mm HS-820 cannon, could be a good step up from previous SPAA’s as it would be have a better firerate and could be given APDS rounds for attacking enemy ground vehicles. Considering it has only 1 cannon and the mount isn’t super heavy, it should be a somewhat faster M113. Armour is still lackluster however. BR would be 3.7-4.0
VCC-1 Camillino with Rheinmetall RH202 20mm auto-cannon (Tech Tree)
Taking the R3 T20’s place will be the VCC-1 Camillino, the main reason i added this vehicle is due to it also having access to a 20mm cannon, the exact one present on the Marder IFV. It will be a little bit better protected than your standard SPAA, but mobility wise it will lack in comparision to other vehicles, especially considering it has taken the place of the R3. I can see it as a perfect SPAA at the BR of 4.7. Overall not as fast as an R3, but better protected and still with a powerful weapon that can deal with air targets quite easily.
OF-24 MK3 (Tech tree)
Although i can see people feeling a bit iffy about this addition, i believe its needed, i decided to add the OF-24 MK3 because this variant of the vehicle features the same armament of the previous SPAA, but instead of having 1 RH202, it has access to 2 of them. The best thing is that this version actually has a dedicated anti-air turret with amazing elevation angles. The trade off would be it not being as survivable as the previous SPAA but likely a bit more mobile. People might not want to see this as it would be quite hard to add considering there’s a lot of missing information on it, and its unknown if it was actually ever built in this version (not that it matters since it can easily be added as an unfinished prototype). I’d say this could be at a BR of 5.0-5.3.
Leopard bofors da 40/70 prototype (Tech Tree)
This is one of the most popular SPAA’s that the Italian community wants around this tier, i added this vehicle because of the extremely powerful main weapon it has, this isn’t a normal bofors cannon, but its the licence produced improved version that Italy had used mainly on its ships. This vehicle would be very easily to make, especially considering that both the hull and weapon system are both already in game. In real life this might’ve been a failed project but in warthunder it is a completely different story. The 40mm can have a multitude of rounds able to be fired from it, HE-VT for example. The downsides to this vehicle is the lack of meaningful armor and poor mobility, but at the right BR it can be quite effective. I suggest this to be at a br of 5.0-6.0, higher if Gaijin is willing to add Italian made 40mm APFSDS rounds.
SIDAM-25 Prototype (Modification to current SIDAM-25)
I used to want this as its own vehicle, but honestly i think it would be much better for all players if this became an unlockable modification. The prototype of the SIDAM has some differences from the production variant, specifically the prototype has access to night/thermal vision devices and an IFF system on top of the turret (IFF standing for Identification friend or foe). This would at the very least help the SIDAM be useful in spotting aircraft during night battles or spotting ground targets if you decide to be brave with the limited APDS rounds you have. The vehicle should be lowered in BR since better SPAA are availible at lower BR’s so 7.7 BR would be ideal.
OF-40 SPAA (Cheetah PRTL/ATAK-35) (Tech Tree)
At the BR of 8.0, will be the OF-40 SPAA prototype which mounted the Dutch version of the Gepard turret, known as Cheetah PRTL/ATAK-35. Although this is called OF-40, the platform was actually of the Palmaria which was modified, currently also present on the OTOMATIC. This SPAA would be very good at the BR of 8.0 as it would essencially be an Italian counterpart to the German gepard, their playstyles would be very similar. The x2 35mm cannons are very powerful and can easily deal with both air and ground targets. Similarly to the Gepard this version had a radar, which for Italy actually is super useful considering we lack any sort of radar SPAA before the OTOMATIC. It would be easy to make considering the hull for the vehicle is already in game, and the turret is similar to a vehicle that we also have in game, which as i previously mentioned helps out the devs as its not an extremely hard thing to make.
Lamborghini LM002
The LM002 will come after the R3 in its own line on the tree, it isn’t a needed addition by all means and would basically play like the R3 but better in every way. The firerate would be improved and also would be more powerful as it has access to a 25mm Oerlikon instead of the 20mm on the R3. It can also be used as an SPAA just like the R3 can, so if gaijin want to they can just give it pure AA rounds. It could get a BR of 6.7-7.0.
New and Improved SPAA line (Rank 6-7)
Spoiler
Iveco Lince RBS 70 NG (Tech tree)
After the Sidam Mistral, i propose to add the Iveco Lince which was tested and marketed with the RBS 70 short air defense system. Currently this type of armament is present inside of the Swedish tech tree on 2 different vehicles, if given the right missile this could prove to be quite the potent top tier SAM for Italy. It would be easy for gaijin to model, both the RBS 70 and the Iveco Lince have tons of information to accurately model. If it does get added i do hope it gets given the SAAB camo such as the one in the picture, mainly for the extra coolness factor.
OTOMATIC (Premium)
This OTOMATIC is the second prototype, this one was installed unto the Leopard. Nothing really changes besides the hull so the mobility between the 2 vehicles would differ. Could be a neat premium or event vehicle for people who want to add another OTOMATIC to their lineup. Easy addition, nothing much more to say really, it would be at the same BR as the current OTOMATIC if not slightly lower considering the differences dont matter much.
B1 Draco (Tech Tree)
Now this might also be quite hard to add, mainly because the B1 Draco was never completed and only ever reached the stage of unfinished prototype, the vehicle was never fully functional. Thankfully we should have enough information for it to be modeled as accurately as possibile. The main difference when compared to the OTOMATIC is that the B1 Draco, if it was to be completed its main defining feature would’ve been the guided munitions known as ‘‘DART’’. Which in game would be very devastating for anyone on the receiving end, mainly helicopters. Due to this the adequate BR for the B1 Draco should be 11.0-12.0. It wouldn’t have access to any sort of APFSDS but would be highly mobile on maps with roads. Gaijin could also give it SCUDO APS which was showcased alongside it.
Iveco M40 Polyphem Carrier
Lastly but not least, the only other possibile top tier SPAA for Italy would be the Iveco Polyphem carrier, i decided to put it after the Dardo mainly because it can be used as an Anti tank vehicle with an Impact fuze missile, or Anti air vehicle with a proximity fuze missile. Its a little controversial as a pick but sadly Italy doesn’t have many SPAA’s that can realistically be added. The Polyphem is quite unique as it has an amazing range of 30km, a major improvement over the SIDAM Mistral which has a pathetic range of around 5km. It would be quite nimble and i can definitely see it at around a BR of 10.3-11.0
Centauro ADATS (Tech tree)
Planned variant of the B1 Centauro, partially finanzed but ultimately due to budget cuts would be dropped. This one didn’t have the staple cannon present on the American ADATS, so only missiles. In game this would be the top Italian SPAA and would combine the great mobility of the Centauro with the firepower of the ADATS turret making it a formidable platform both for air and ground targets. It would also offer a completely different gameplay style compared to the American ADATS or the Canadian ADATS. Both parts were completed so technically its not directly a paper vehicle, i know its controversial but if we’re looking for a top SAM that fits the meta then this is one of the only options.
Honorable mentions (vehicles that can be added but i didnt add to the line or vehicles which arent super needed)
Spoiler
MEI Mirador Eldorado Indigo. (Tech tree)
Honestly a lot of our problems could be resolved with adding this vehicle, sadly the only thing that stops it from being added is that in real life it needed to have a ‘’ pet ‘’ vehicle to actually function properly. When or if Gaijin decide to change their rules when it comes to how they add and implement SPAA, then this should be seriously considered to get added to the tree. You can see in the picture below how it would function. BR wise i have no clue exactly where it would go, it purely depends on how far gaijin is willing to go to model its missiles which are quite powerful.
OTO C-13 (SIDAM-25) (Tech Tree/Event)
Replacing the production SIDAM-25 in the tree is the C-13 SIDAM. This variant was going to be made at one point. For people unfamiliar with what actually happened, the C-13 was going to be fitted with a prototype turret of the SIDAM, but due to political reasons it was cancelled last minute before they were physically mounted together. Although it was never ‘‘fully’’ constructed the parts for this version were both completed and were going to be mounted. Why i chose this to take place of the production SIDAM at 8.0 is due to the amazing mobility of the C-13, and it being generally a lower profile than the M113 version. Since this version was going to mount the prototype turret of the SIDAM it also makes it much better than the production version as it could have access to a low level night/thermal vision device.
IVECO M320 Porcupine (Squadron/Event?)
Honestly i had no idea were to put this SPAA, it wouldn’t play the best due to it being quite a big target and the not the most armored thing, however the gun it has access to is very strong. People who play the American tech tree, its the same gun on the M113 Vads. The 20mm is accompanied by a radar which again is quite rare to see on Italian SPAA’s. Overall its not a needed addition but can help bolster someones lineup if they need extra firepower. It could be a sqaudron but Gaijin has yet to add squadron AA vehicles, so if not it can be an event vehicle.
M113 Rheinmetall RH202 (Tech tree)
Originally i had it in the main line but since the OF-24 MK3 was part of the line and had the same armament, i didn’t see the need to also include this. That said this is easier to add as we have 100% confirmation that it was actually fully made and tested. So if Gaijin want to go the easy route this can easily be added instead of the OF-24.
M113 25mm Oerlikon (GBA-AOA turret)
When i first posted this, i had a nice chat with BlueBeta who shared his opinions in private pms on what he thought could be done and what should be changed, one of his proposals for my thread was to include the M113 with x1 25mm, i honestly would not mind seeing this but i’ve already included a lot of vehicles based on the M113 chassis on the thread already, so to make sure not to clutter it i’ve included it in this section. This would literally be an M113 with a singular 25mm, wouldn’t be OP whatsoever and is quite easy to model.
