Greetings, today i want to present you all the “R3 problem”.
This vehicle although being constantly nerfed and raised in br with 0.7 jumps is getting constantly raised and raised over and over; useless to say i’m not surprised seeing how gaijin handles br evaluations for vehicles and how overtiered minor nations vehicles are. What most people do not know is that the R3 T20 shouldn’t be in the SPAA line, as suggested multiple times and as was stated by many even amongst the historic consultants. The R3 was a light recon vehicle, with NVD, stabilizer and able to fire all standard nato ammunition for the Oerlikon 20mm; that means that it could shoot apds. Why then gaijin didn’t address the issue and listened to the community to give it apds, back the original stab, nvd (not thermals) and raised to 7.0? No one really knows (same reason why they do not add more spaa for italy even tho there are plenty available). If you think there aren’t enough spaa to fill the huge gaps gaijin refuses to since the TT came out, i’ll post the link to a rework of the italian SPAA line made by @Nicho
R3 as light tank instead of pure AA 100%
Right… so better in LITERALLY every way than the Wiesel 1A4, but at the same BR…?
The R3 T20 should go up to 7.0 right now, doesn’t even need better shells, a stab and thermals, its already better than the Wiesel 1A4
better in every way? NVD not TVD. your statement about it needing to go 7.0 is just outrageous and complete non-sense. furthermore, the full stab is not sure to be added, so even there at 7.0 would perform way worse than the wiesel.
‘‘its already better than the Wiesel 1A4’’
Uhm no.
The Wiesel 1A4 gets APDS, access to 3rd generation thermals, night vision and a laser rangefinder whilst the R3 does not. The only thing the R3 is better at right now is on-road mobility but off-road the Wiesel is likely better. As a platform its also better because of how small it is. I’d seriously consider actually knowing about the R3 instead of spreading misinformation.
I hope that the R3 can stay at 5.0.
R3 T20 is not a SPAA, is a light tank… Keeping it in that line at 5.7 (as it is now) makes no sense since it takes a spot of a possible other addition and prevent it from being realistic
The 9mm of extra pen you get from the 1A4’s APDS is inconsequential. The Wiesel has limited turret traverse and horrible elevation angles, a lower fire rate, less ammo per belt and in total, no stabilizer at all, a slower reload speed, slower turret traverse and gun elevation speeds.
The only thing the Wiesel is noticeably better at than the R3 T20 is spotting with the thermals. That’s literally ALL it has. There’s a reason the R3 T20 is played almost 2x more than the Wiesel 1A4. The 1A4 is a horrible vehicle in-game and is purely used to goof around while the R3 T20 is arguably the best AA vehicle in-game until the radar SPAA start to appear.
R3 has been HORRIBLY under tiered since it was added to the game. It doesn’t need any buffs to go up in BR.
Those 9mm are all but inconsequential. They make a huge difference between being able to pen some tanks’ side armour or not.
R3 T 20 at BR 7.0… absolutely not.
The only ones who are evaluating you positively are those who hate the R3 and would like it to be at the same BR as the Wiesel, when professional players know that the Wiesel is better than the R3, even if you want to transform it into a light reconnaissance wagon at most its BR will become 6.3, R3 doesn’t have thermals and isn’t as small as the Wiesel which if you use bushes hides completely.
While , if we evaluate it as a SPAA it was perfectly balanced at BR 5.0, the fact that they raised it is a concrete example that the developers don’t even look at the win rates which are 50% lower on this vehicle.
Apart from the fact that it is assured that the developers of Gaijin, in order to avoid adding new vehicles for Italy to BR 6.0 or 6.3, where Italy needs them (Rank IV Italian tech tree that hasn’t been touched in 4 years), increase the BRs of existing vehicles to disproportionate levels, it is pointless to deny this cheating behaviour, since it has already happened with Ariete and with OTOMATIC, that to avoid adding a new high level MBT or SPAA, you increased the vehicles that were already there by putting them at BR above 11.0.
Everyone in the community no one excepted thinks that the Ariete implemented in the game should not be above BR 11.0 but at most 10.7.
Now we are talking about the OTOMATIC being weaker than the Russian 2S38, but OTOMATIC stands at BR 11.3 while 2S38 is still at BR 10.0, you are real foxes when you try to balance the game in favour of the Russians.
Now, it is undeniable that Italy is really bad with SPAA, since after this change to stupidly increase the BR of the R3 to 5.7, the Italian Rank III now has no more SPAA to use for formations from BR 4.0 and BR 5.0, while for formations 6.3 R3 can be used, but it is undeniable that R3 is easily surpassed by all other SPAA of other nations at BR 6.3, which means that Italy will be forced to play always in impossible mode.
Here is an example of a vehicle at BR 6.3 SPAA that is extremely stronger than R3: “M53/59” is a much stronger vehicle than R3 but stands at BR 6.3, there are other examples that can be given, but it is undeniable that if you use R3 at 6.3 you will always play in difficult mode.
Seeing as R3 has been upgraded to BR 5.7 I wonder why the Russian BTR-ZD is still at BR 5.3, the BTR-ZD has 2 23mm cannons giving it a high rate of fire superior to the R3 vehicle with smoke grenades which R3 does not have, vehicle as agile and fast as R3, with more crew members (6 members) giving it a high survivability value… Ah! Yeah, sure, it’s a Russian vehicle! And the Russians have to play in the not easy, but very easy mode.
After the recent nerf of wheeled vehicles, R3 with full stab+apds+nvg should be a 6.3 light tank because 7.0 wiesel is better.
Remember that R3 can be ammo-racked shooting the ammo box on the side of the gun. BTR-ZD starts better on steep hills and has better capacity of clib after the recent wheeled vehicles nerf. So if the BTR-ZD stay at 5.3 R3 should come back to 5.0…or the BTR-ZD must go 6.0.
Y’all R3 fanboys are unhinged
R3 fanboy? No Is a matter of being objective, something big3 mains cannot be
Being objective, the R3 has consistently been the best non-radar SPAA in-game and has historically been hyper under tiered. The fact its BR has been raised from 3.3 when it was added to 5.7 despite its high speed stabilizer being removed just goes to show how capable of a vehicle this is.
You aren’t being objective by pretending the vehicle needs to be buffed, its already largely better than the most comparable vehicle (Wiesel 1A4) who’s only real advantage is the thermals allowing it to scout more easily, and the 1A4 pays for this by sitting at 7.0 instead of 5.7.
Or, give it those things and leave it where it is.
Or, simply add nothing and leave it where it is.
Stop trying to screw over a minor nation even harder, please and thank you.
you fail to comprehend the reason of this post. apart from the obvious that the wiesel is far superior to the R3, the aim is to put the R3 in the spot it was always meant to be, light tank, to free up space for other spaa. now, since irl it had NVD (not thermals) apds and the stab, giving those things would make it realistic and thus would need to raise in br. i don’t know what’s hard to comprehend
R3 has:
better mobility
bigger magazine
more ammo
stabilizer (at slow speeds)
better armor than the wiesel
more crew
better elevation angle
better turret turn angle (full while the wiesel has only 180)
Wiesel has:
better ammo
thermals
smaller turn circle (due to tracks)
smaller
When the r3 gets dm63 then it should at least 7.0 aswell. You guys just want to keep your undertiered vehicle
Type RCV (P) is 7.3 btw
The R3 also has better reload speed and gun handling speeds. And the ammo difference between the 2 is barely notable, as its only an extra 9mm of pen
Just because its “only 9mm more pen”. APDS preforms MUCH better on angles, which would allow to effectively engage enemies better.