Are you sure about that, we have Germany with the first concept, Avro Arrow in the 50s with the first working version and then Concorde. US did use the first digital fly by wire computers became a thing.
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Do you have any proof that China or Russia stole information and documents about the F-22.
Monkey see, monkey do is like a basic law of human nature, it goes without saying that you see something good you want one for yourself, the fact is that ideas can’t be owned, it took China at least 20 years to develop the J-20 and development started right around when the F-22 first took flight, so was it espionage, or was it research, China have a huge military budget and none of the political flip flopping that the US does, there’s no reason they couldn’t have built it themselves, it’s not like the US is the only nation that can make new things
can we stop with turning r&r into some kind of bragging match
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None of that was true fbw, the avro arrow just used electric input to move hydraulics like any other aircraft, US was the first to make a true fbw system in the 1972 NASA F-8
You know, as It spurred a lot of people on, like when the Soviets launched their rockets in 1960s…
A quick Google search will show RTX (Raytheon) was sued by government because China stole sensitive information about multiple aircraft including the F-22 through Raytheon employees working in China
The other issue with this conversation is that espionage in the modern sense has only existed since the US became a superpower, you can’t exactly steal classified blueprints of small arms, or simple field artillery, or ships of the line, because the concepts behind them are broad as day, the best example would probably be smokeless powder which was a French invention and revolutionized warfare, but they knew they couldn’t keep a lid on that for long as it’s just simple chemistry
You definitely can steal small arms blueprints seeing as it’s been done before
When F-35/F22 contains parts made in China, there is no doubt that they will get some information, if you check the report carefully, it says the engine’s issue.
Still is proof that China has stolen American technology and IP and undoubtedly will every chance they get
The same stories show that this was about 2009 onwards, China had been developing since the 90s, would it be fair to call it a F-22 clone or just F-22 expedited, also large amounts that were “stolen” were not classified or even export controlled, so it was not so much espionage as it was the natural spread of technology.
Yes, of course I know that China stole tech from the US, but this is the same China that was living medieval in the 1930s and has been playing catch up ever since, can we just acknowledge that a nation that built its first 4th gen in 2004 managed 5th gen just 13 years later.
The US is in the spotlight now but it’s coming down from its peak years and it’s obvious for all to see, it won’t be long before the US will be stealing tech from China, I guarantee it. (So long as the world doesn’t end by then)
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Am I lost? Is this the thread for delusions about the next War Thunder update or delusions about reality?
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But China made first J-10 1997? And got Su-27 to dissect and inspect in 1991
So 26 years from China getting first 4th gen to first 5th gen. Roughly same time from F-14 introduction (the first 4th gen) to combat ready F-22 being delivered to US
I think it’s too late for that especially with more mains coming on
Stealing the technology is unrealistic, at best it would be a reference, perfect C&P is a nightmare, just like the TU4 and B29, maybe the key technical data can be used as a reference, but the design is impossible as it would be an engineering disaster (I hate when imperial units appear on drawings)
J-10 - J-20 first flight vs introduction: 1998 - 2011 vs 2004 - 2017 either way you look at it was 13 years.
And the J-11 was a licensed production which was later reverse engineered, not a domestic design
China still got their first 4th gen in 1991, and while from that to J-10 first flight only 6 years after is fairly impressive, they didn’t really innovate at all, seeing it’s similarlities to the Lavi
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There is actually no consensus on the J-10 having tech from the Lavi, it’s a commonly held conspiracy theory but nothing more, like the primary source from that claim is an info group claiming Russian engineers claiming they overheard Chinese engineers claiming the J-10 was based on the Lavi, and if that isn’t a textbook case of Chinese whispers IDK what is.
Idk, apparently some Russian engineers said the Chinese engineers they knew had some technical assistance from Israel