See, that’s your problem. Talking about that “objectivity” nonsense…
SILENCE, OBJECTIVE CAPABILITIES! PLAYER STATISTICS ARE TALKING! ARIETE AMV = LEOPARD 2A7HU!
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Q-5L to 11.7!!!
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It’s so funny to read posts like “f15e=su 27sm”. Are we playing the same game?
The biggest issue of su- 27\33\27sm is its radar. It’s basicly worse comparing to others.
Plus, 15e is WAY supperior in current meta since it have better t\w ratio, more chaff\flares, not even talking about the difference in fox-3 pereformance (i’ll pick aim-120 over r-77 in any situation). The only advantage of 27sm is r-27ET, but it’s limited to only 2 of them.
Su-30sm will not fix the 27sm situation since it have the same shitty radar, the same missiles, even worse t\w ratio and it will bleed energy like su-33 in dogfights. Russia has only 2 options to be competitive against ef-2000\15e\ rafaele - SU-35 (which will be better) and su-30sm2 (which will be at the same level) without adding any new missiles.
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F-15E is to F-15C what F-104S is to Kurnass.
Faster acceleration, but loses maneuverability.
In F-15E’s case it weighs over 2 tons more empty, and due to the superior engines requires more fuel to be brought. Even if you brought identical fuel loads, the F-15E and C have an almost identical energy retention at and above mach 1, and F-15C has a superior energy retention once speeds drop below mach ~0.92.
@BearHasLanded
Show me where I said Su-27SM should be 14.3, AKA superior to F-15C and E.
I specifically stated that Su-27SM has a time to climb similar to that of F-15C, with a better energy retention to F-15E [everything above Mig-29SMT has a superior energy retention to F-15E, and Mig-29SMT’s is almost identical to F-15E’s energy retention].
F-15E just accelerates faster which allows it to do high-alt attacks.
Erm, it has the N011M Bars which is a PESA radar
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You specifically stated
and I said
Where did either of us bring up BR? All I did was call you out for saying the SU-27SM is better than the F-15E, which is exactly what you did, the quote is right there, you can’t deny that’s what you said.
If I say something is superior, I will specify a BR that is superior.
You never called me out on that cause I never said F-15E is inferior to Su-27SM as a whole; I explicitly stated they’re equivalents multiple times.
F-15E trades energy retention and maneuverability for faster acceleration compared to Su-27SM and F-15C/JM/BazM.
Both have 8x AMRAHMs, Su-27SM gets 4 more IR missiles with those.
So on and so forth.
So either YOU prove that Su-27SM is superior, or you drop the strawman fallacy already and acknowledge the clarifications.
I mean… i make high quality Wiki pages and received 5K GE for 2 posts.
BUT, it was a lot of research, because Japanese WWII stuff is pretty rare…
Guys the biggest problem with the Su-27SM is the R-77’s FM is garbage, partially due to real life factors and game engine.
Irbis-E will just give you a marginal increase in acquisition speed.
F-15E with AIM-120’s is effectively the better plane in BVR. Enough said. Lol
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That it literally the opposite of what I’ve been saying, I can’t prove it because it’s not true.
You’ve claimed 3 things so far:
those 3 statements cannot all be true, and just because something is better or worse doesn’t mean they need different BRs, that’s just not always possible on a 40-point scale, so put BR aside and what you’re saying is that the SU-27SM is better than the F-15C and F-15E. Now it’s fine to have opinions, it’s just that this one is wrong. Also, there is no strawman when I’m quoting you for what you said, and the clarifications you made don’t seem to change the fact that you’re stating that the SU-27SM is the better aircraft
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@BearHasLanded
Then you’ll be able to prove your stance by doing a 1v1.
Now, I know for a fact F-15E will lose.
F-15C will marginally lose.
F-15A would tie.
Again, airframe performance =/= as a whole.
The reason why F-15E can hold its own against F-15C, Su-27SM, etc is because of its acceleration.
In air RB, players retaining their speed at these top BRs matters more than dogfighting, otherwise F-15E is just a worse airframe overall.
F-15E and Mig-29SMT are the airframes that struggle, but are fast enough thanks to their engines to where it doesn’t impact usability in air RB.
Engines are the only reason F-15E is equivalent to every other 14.0 in the game. It’s the worst airframe at 14.0, and even 13.7, but that doesn’t matter cause the engines produce thrust and that makes it an equivalent to other 2 engine missile busses at 13.7 and 14.0 except J-11A cause that’s just trash.
Damn, Now I’m pretty interest in any Japanese WWII aircraft which has enough ammunition of type 5 cannon, it almost save WWII Japan lack of CAS issue, but till now, only J5N1 and R2Y2 could satisfy this.
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Yes, the F-15E loses 1v1 I’m not going to deny that, but to quote you:
1v1 almost never happens in top tier, and the F-15E is better suited to the current meta than the SU-27SM is.
again to quote you:
by your own logic does that not mean that the F-15A should be a higher BR than the F-15E, after all the better aircraft always wins the dogfight right, otherwise what would be the point in saying:
a 1v1 proves nothing about top tier air RB
So now who’s really trying the strawman, because I never claimed the F-15E would win a dogfight, that was actually a position you made up for me?
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and this is an issue of the Typhoon and Rafale probably needing to be 14.3 more than anything
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I think a better way to say this is that the F-15 air frame is not optimized for WVR the way the Su-27 or JA-39 or EFT or Rafale are.
However, it’s ability to accelerate and maintain acceleration allows it to perform adequately in air RB.
I’m confident, 1v1 vs an F-15E in my Su-27SM that I’m probably going to win, but I have to survive to the merge to get there. AIM-120 spam really keeps that from happening for players that don’t know how to play air RB.
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You clinged on to my airframe take and seemingly ignored everything else.
So you shouldn’t be surprised when I bring up 1v1 when you claim that my airframe take is wrong.
And no, Rafale and Typhoon are F-15C equivalent aircraft as well.
Airframe performance =/= BR. The weapons dictate playstyle more than anything else.
AMRAAMs killed the dogfight entirely.
My entire point is that because top BR War Thunder is AMRAAM territory, that speed matters most, then weapon count and radars when the defensive systems are “equal”.
Time to climb is a consideration for hyper-aggressive gameplay.
And taking ALL OF THAT into account, that makes F-15C/BazM/JM/E/I, Typhoons, Su-27SM, and Rafale equal.
No, Su-27SM doesn’t have a narrow search; it has a 20km HMD though.
No, F-15E can’t dogfight to save its life, it has engines though.
No, F-15C-BazM don’t have the best engines, they have lower weight and better fuel endurance though.
So on and so forth.
Each trade something for something else that’s equal for the context of air RB.
That’s my entire point.
It’s not (Well ingame at least). It has a TON more thrust which you will feel when you fly them both. Surprisingly the F-15E/I actually outperform the F-15Cs at low speeds as well (they shouldn’t), and the higher BR ingame is very much warranted due to its advantages.
The things a fricken rocket ship in Air RB
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As I said, the thrust is the only thing that makes the F-15E equivalent to F-15C.
F-15C is a minimum of empty-mass difference lighter, and in reality it’s even lighter due to players bringing less fuel mass than F-15E players.
F-15C out-rates F-15E at all speeds below ~0.92 mach, which also means it out-retains energy at those speeds.
Outright acceleration only matters for hyper-aggressive gameplay: Climbing BVR.
Outside that, it’s a marginal difference in gameplay compared to everything else.
Top speed of the F-15E is chronically average due to the drag nerfs.