It’s less about it being able to turn badly, and more about it being unkillable to any subsonic plane.
The main things prevent it and other 9.3s from going up are the 10.0/10.3 supersonics with undodgable missiles such as the Mirages, Mig-21MF/SMT, F-8s, and most other 10.0/10.3 planes.
There’s also the fact that the T-2 is considerably better than most 9.3s in my experience facing them.
You are the one crying to nerf plane that have 3 min of fuel and have to fly at 30% throttle,burn half of its fuel until it finally sees enemy, and then pray its low velocity guns with few rounds hit and do some damage before having to rtb again on 30% throttle with the remaining 1 min of fuel. The only thing Komet can do is turn, and even then only once before the speed is gone. I have no issue dying to F-104s, ik how they behave and how to evade them.
I never faced issues killing them. Headons almost always meant the F-104 loses. Anything with Aim-9G/Ds also provided a free win 90% of the time.
T-2 doesn’t have the downsides (bad turning and bad missiles) that the F-104 has.
This is where the pilots enter the picture and then the subsonic pilot creates a situation where the pencil is killable. I’ve done it in a G91/A4 before, and I’ve done it to Lightnings too.
while it isn’t possible in all subsonics, ones with good missiles won’t have to fear the f104.
with the subsonic sea vixen i killed f104’s more often than they killed me
Seriously, if ‘unkillable’ thing is the problem of Me163 or Ki-200 which need to be nerfed
According to that same silly theory, F-104A/C should’ve been 9.7 long ago.
F-104A/C are nearly untouchable too when flying subsonic jets unless
both things are achieved at the same time.
if subsonic defenders lack of any of one, things go a lot harder.
It is their skill issue that they even can’t aim M61A1, one of the most trustworthy cannons in War Thunder.
No other jet but Ayit carries AIM-9D. rest of subsonic jets in downtier of F-104 carries only AIM-9B which is nearly can’t hit F-104 thanks to the energy difference.
If subsonic pilots are highly skilled enough to fool the F-104, they might trap them to better position to fight against
But when F-104 players are also at the same level of skill, they just can run away with no risk and go to find easier targets first.
I just can’t get why Pangolin man trying to defend F-104A/C but wants to kill Ki-200 and Me 163 at the same time in this topic.
it is just nothing but double standard with USA coping.
You don’t need missiles when a gigantic sausage is 5 meters next to you
thats what they say before getting gunned by the sausage. only reason the f104 would die from a situation like that is a severe skill issue
Turn circle radius limitations + ballistic physics will prevent the 104 from ever connecting shots using the Vulcan, if properly flying defence.
Add some master baiting (by controlling your own turn circle) and suddenly you induce severe skill issue in experienced sausage players. You’re trying to get the opponent to think “If I commit just a little more, I’ll get the kill”. Inexperienced players will take the bait because they don’t know better, whereas experienced players will take the bait because you need to take risk in order to get work done. Unless the attacking 104 has a plan to trick the defender into wrong decisions, the 104 is not unkillable by subsonics.
sure in 1v1 however in a real battle with multiple players unless if youre afk and fly straight being paranoid looking around youre going to be putting yourself in situations where at times you wont have perfect situational awaraness nor full energy
and again,
ok take ur f84f and see how it goes. point was especially in downtiers.
the problem is that you’re talking on paper instead of in real matches, all while forgetting that the f104 can pick when to attack you and when not to.
Yeah of course you’re not going to focus a Starfighter that attacks you once per two minutes when there are much more threatening targets around you. You may as well add “the 104 is unspotted and you’re not aware of it” to the list. I’m trying to argue that when you’re fighting (which implies focusing) a Starfighter, you’re not out of options as a subsonic. This means you took all the needed precautions to actually start fighting one.
Funnily enough I have experience killing a 104 in that too. It was back when all F84Fs had airspawn. A lone Starfighter was bullying my entire subsonic team at the deck, while I was at alt. Predicting where he would head, I took a very preemptive interception path, and ended up right behind his engine, which turned into flaming swiss cheese.
In another case I manipulated one to crash into the ground, which again, demonstrates that it’s not impossible to defeat Starfighters as subsonics.
When I mentioned the G91 earlier, I meant the pre-serie, which is 8.3.
Same with the A4, I meant the A4-H, which is also 8.3.
I’m writing these posts specifically because I have experience doing so in real battles, while also backing up explanations with theory.
This is exactly what lets me defeat them. They NEED to come to me to attack me, which I can use to create a situation where the F104 is in deep trouble if it commits. No commitment = no kills, but the goal IS kills.
Honestly true. you cant even stay high up to intercept at full power then glide due to every uptier spamming missiles at you. if it was a more aerodynamically superior design like the Me 163D, it could of fight 8.7 opponents with the superior accel with less drag but the current ones… nope.
problem is you are because they can choose you to not attack until you have to deal with more threatening targets, and then youre an easy kill
and that is a lot of whataboutism with you
you can only defeat players with a skill issue in the f84
i have defeated a f16 with a prop too